- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
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questions for hunters who have been to africa
- Thread starter MiG25
- Start date
Africa is totally in my blood and I made my first trip back in '77 to South Africa when Kenya shut it down a few weeks before I was due to go on a 15 day buffalo hunt near Nanyuki .... The booking agent got my deposit back and sent me on a ten day hunt (more money)to the Transvaal ... this was just before they pretty well fenced up the whole darn country. And I got a leopard !!!! I have now reached the stage in my life (while still working until June) that I go back to Africa every year now. (This is in Northern Namibia where a buddy and I have our own private camp ... how sweet is that for a couple of graying rednecks ? ... ) We have leopards on this property and an elephant crossing sign just down the main road. My opinion on this PG stuff versus the DG hunt for the first trip ... if you possibly can .... (and I have been a teacher my entire life so have always been in debt at the bank for these trips) .. is to hunt DG ... and whack PG on the side. Absolutely no comparison for the experience ... I love hunting everything from field mice up to elephant ... but now when I whack a kudu ... it is Tuesday ... now a buffalo or leopard or something ... Wow !!! A lion or a jumbo ..... you'll never be the same and one thing for certain - you'll know that you have not wasted your life ... Graylake ... when will you be in Namibia ??? This year I won't be at our camp until October ... In 2009 it just might be when everything is still green. If you are within a 1/2 day's drive you are most welcome to come see us. (Your lady is offered a free kudu bull ... you and I can drink a couple of Windhoek lagers and shoot sandgrouse !!!) If anyone wants my perspective on things ... e mail me and we can chat. Did I mention that I love Africa !!!
I like that line! I just paid my airfare today for my elephant/buffalo hunt in July. Hunting for something that can kill you in close cover is somewhat different than popping a whitetail, impala, or kudu. I have high hopes that elephant will be another step up the adreneline chart.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Dogleg -
If you have the opportunity to hunt them in close cover your adreneline counter will go into overdrive. When they are angry it is a sight and a sound to behold.
Martinbns -
Who did your taxidermy work?
If you have the opportunity to hunt them in close cover your adreneline counter will go into overdrive. When they are angry it is a sight and a sound to behold.
Martinbns -
Who did your taxidermy work?
Red Dune Taxidermy near Kimberly.
We got shoulder mounts of a Kudu(son's), a gemsbok and a mountain reedbuck(mine) and euro mounts of kudu, gemsbok, impala, springbok, blue wildebeest and a zebra rug. We hunted these animals in the first two weeks of July. I have never mounted a trophy before, the work in the shop seemed good, realistic. Hopefully these are good, the price and delivery time was so much better than here we decided to have it done there. All that including the crating and vets certificate for $3396 US. Shipping by Air through Safari Cargo is another $12-1500. The guy in Sherwood Park I talked to wanted $1500 for kudu shoulder mount alone and the bear martinbns jr shot in the fall of 2005 made it up here in December of 2007.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Mine were done by Red Dune as well. They're in a little town called Jacobsdal near Kimberly. Nice little spot that might remind you of a small prairie town, if it wasn't for every yard in town having a huge fence!
I can't wait to see your pics Martin.
I can't wait to see your pics Martin.
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MiG25,
Here are some semi-random thoughts from from an Africa junkie.
If DG is on the wish list, get your DG rifle now and shoot it often. I'm a recoil wuss and it took me a while to learn to shoot my .375 H&H. For most people, managing recoil is a learned skill.
You are paying, so you decide how and where you'll hunt. Decide your stance on game fences, hunting styles and backing shots on DG. Ask potential outfitters about these things early and often. Don't sign a contract until you are sure you are going to get what you want. Safari operators always seem glad to answer a few thoughtful questions, even to people they know aren't going to be booking a hunt immediately.
You've probably already made your most important decision already by starting your research early. The web is wonderful, accuratereloading and nitroexpress are good places to get current info. Because change is constant, the info you gather now may be of little use when booking a 2013 hunt, but you can start to get a feel for what kind of hunting experience you want and what type of operator you'd like to do business with. I think that the more you know, the better you'll feel about plonking down 5 figures worth of cash. Using Lucca as an example: They offer buffalo hunts in Moz. These hunts are conducted in Coutada 10 on the Zambezi delta. It is a huge area, but you'll typically end up sharing a camp with another hunting party. The rights holders to C10 sublet it to any and all. Sometimes, and I don't know if it is the case with C10, concessions get badly over shot when managed by subletting operations. My first trip to Africa was on a subletted concession in the Selous. Awesome experience, no regrets (other than not having a shotgun to get a few birds) but when I booked this year's trip, I chose to go with an operator that owns the rights to the concessions being hunted. It is typically a little cheaper to hunt on sublet concessions.
Zim is a mess, but it is still possible to get a good hunt there. You really have to do your research though. A number of SA firms are conducting hunts on confiscated land or working with corrupt officials to conduct illegal hunts. I wouldn't book a hunt in Zim for 3 years from now, but would consider taking a cancellation/short notice hunt.
I've used two booking strategies. One was to book a couple of years in advance. This locks in the day rate etc you'll pay the outfitter and lets you pick your hunting area and the prime hunting times. Government changes to trophy fees will still be passed on to you, so you can't be completely sure what your hunt will cost until 6 or 10 months before you leave. Many booking agents will hold your deposit and trophy fees in NA until you actually finish your hunt. This gives you some protection from African corruption and access to NA legal systems in the highly unlikely event that it is necessary.
Cancellation/short notice hunts are a really interesting option. If you are ready to go on short notice (a couple of days to a couple of months) you can get some amazing deals. However, not only do you have to be able to leave quickly and unpredicatably, you have to keep a bunch of things in order: guns, boots, vaccinations, passport and of course cash. Most importantly, you have to have done enough home work to be sure that you'll be happy sending the operator a $10K cheque the day after you talk to them. Being both a nerd and a dreamer, I keep a spreadheet of hunts I'm interested in. If nothing else, it lets me do quick price comparisions (and it reminds me why I get up to go to work).
Unless you are hunting with some one you are very close to (spouse, kid, parent) 2x1 hunts are a real poor bet. 50% the hunting for 90% of the cost. However, if budget/objective is limited it might work well, especially on a fenced game ranch where the owners really know their herds. If you have a limited trophy fee budget, I think you are better off shooting fewer animals by holding out for something really special, even if you aren't really a trophy hunter.
It drives me nuts when people say "just a PG hunt". The way I see it, hunting an impala or warthog is still a life event. If it's not, are you sure that is how you want to spend your money?
If going to Africa looks like it will be a once in a life time event and buff or leopard are in your dreams, don't go until you find a way to get one.
If you've dreamed of going to Africa enough to actually do it, you'll scratch and claw to go back.
Enjoy hunting for your hunt,
Dean
Here are some semi-random thoughts from from an Africa junkie.
If DG is on the wish list, get your DG rifle now and shoot it often. I'm a recoil wuss and it took me a while to learn to shoot my .375 H&H. For most people, managing recoil is a learned skill.
You are paying, so you decide how and where you'll hunt. Decide your stance on game fences, hunting styles and backing shots on DG. Ask potential outfitters about these things early and often. Don't sign a contract until you are sure you are going to get what you want. Safari operators always seem glad to answer a few thoughtful questions, even to people they know aren't going to be booking a hunt immediately.
You've probably already made your most important decision already by starting your research early. The web is wonderful, accuratereloading and nitroexpress are good places to get current info. Because change is constant, the info you gather now may be of little use when booking a 2013 hunt, but you can start to get a feel for what kind of hunting experience you want and what type of operator you'd like to do business with. I think that the more you know, the better you'll feel about plonking down 5 figures worth of cash. Using Lucca as an example: They offer buffalo hunts in Moz. These hunts are conducted in Coutada 10 on the Zambezi delta. It is a huge area, but you'll typically end up sharing a camp with another hunting party. The rights holders to C10 sublet it to any and all. Sometimes, and I don't know if it is the case with C10, concessions get badly over shot when managed by subletting operations. My first trip to Africa was on a subletted concession in the Selous. Awesome experience, no regrets (other than not having a shotgun to get a few birds) but when I booked this year's trip, I chose to go with an operator that owns the rights to the concessions being hunted. It is typically a little cheaper to hunt on sublet concessions.
Zim is a mess, but it is still possible to get a good hunt there. You really have to do your research though. A number of SA firms are conducting hunts on confiscated land or working with corrupt officials to conduct illegal hunts. I wouldn't book a hunt in Zim for 3 years from now, but would consider taking a cancellation/short notice hunt.
I've used two booking strategies. One was to book a couple of years in advance. This locks in the day rate etc you'll pay the outfitter and lets you pick your hunting area and the prime hunting times. Government changes to trophy fees will still be passed on to you, so you can't be completely sure what your hunt will cost until 6 or 10 months before you leave. Many booking agents will hold your deposit and trophy fees in NA until you actually finish your hunt. This gives you some protection from African corruption and access to NA legal systems in the highly unlikely event that it is necessary.
Cancellation/short notice hunts are a really interesting option. If you are ready to go on short notice (a couple of days to a couple of months) you can get some amazing deals. However, not only do you have to be able to leave quickly and unpredicatably, you have to keep a bunch of things in order: guns, boots, vaccinations, passport and of course cash. Most importantly, you have to have done enough home work to be sure that you'll be happy sending the operator a $10K cheque the day after you talk to them. Being both a nerd and a dreamer, I keep a spreadheet of hunts I'm interested in. If nothing else, it lets me do quick price comparisions (and it reminds me why I get up to go to work).
Unless you are hunting with some one you are very close to (spouse, kid, parent) 2x1 hunts are a real poor bet. 50% the hunting for 90% of the cost. However, if budget/objective is limited it might work well, especially on a fenced game ranch where the owners really know their herds. If you have a limited trophy fee budget, I think you are better off shooting fewer animals by holding out for something really special, even if you aren't really a trophy hunter.
It drives me nuts when people say "just a PG hunt". The way I see it, hunting an impala or warthog is still a life event. If it's not, are you sure that is how you want to spend your money?
If going to Africa looks like it will be a once in a life time event and buff or leopard are in your dreams, don't go until you find a way to get one.
If you've dreamed of going to Africa enough to actually do it, you'll scratch and claw to go back.
Enjoy hunting for your hunt,
Dean
Sound advice (from both you and Dogleg), but I have to confess that I've gone out and done just that -- booked a buff/leopard/sable/PG hunt in Zim for 2011. I agree 100% that it's a bit of a crapshoot. But the worst that can probably happen is a hunt cancellation and a return of the deposit -- which is being held in an offshore account in the Channel Islands until just prior to the hunt. The trick, obviously, is to be dealing with a PH whose reputation is above reproach -- which I'm quite satisfied is the case.
I can't help but agree with Dogleg's earlier comments, however. Going to hunt private land in RSA (which I've done and really enjoyed) lacks a certain amount of grittiness. Is it really an African adventure if you're 100% certain you'll be coming back in one piece?
i dont want to sound like an anti, but why on earth would you want to shoot an elephant?
one of the worlds most beautiful creatures, which is struggling against extinction...
i see hunting as a way to effectively manage the population of an animal. for example here in AB the Deer numbers surely need managing.. same for vermin animals like gophers or whatever.. with proper management hunting can improve the environment for animals. but shooting an elephant just seems to be a hobby for those who can afford it..
Elephants are hardly taking over are they? likewise a giraffe, hardly a challenge are they when you can literally walk up to a herd and take a shot.. i just cant see how shooting it is better than just seeing such magnificent animals in their natural environment..
one of the worlds most beautiful creatures, which is struggling against extinction...
i see hunting as a way to effectively manage the population of an animal. for example here in AB the Deer numbers surely need managing.. same for vermin animals like gophers or whatever.. with proper management hunting can improve the environment for animals. but shooting an elephant just seems to be a hobby for those who can afford it..
Elephants are hardly taking over are they? likewise a giraffe, hardly a challenge are they when you can literally walk up to a herd and take a shot.. i just cant see how shooting it is better than just seeing such magnificent animals in their natural environment..
actually, it is my understanding that in many areas, elephants are overpopulated and causing the destruction of their (and other animals) habitats. even the world wildlife fund estimates there are more than 500,000 elephants in africa. the only game animals in canada that have these population numbers are whitetail, moose, caribou, and black bear. half a million hugely outnumbers game animals such as sheep, goat, grizzly, and elk in this country.
not to say the elephant population is at historic levels, but without removing millions (perhaps tens or hundreds of millions) of people, the habitat for such numbers doesn't exist.
Struggling against extinction? Wow, is someone working with bad information...
Take a look at what's happening in Botswana. Current population estimates put the elephant population in that country at between 120,000 and 160,000. And by all knowledgeable accounts, a sustainable number for Botswana would be more on the order of 10,000. Elephant are enormously destructive in their eating habits. Not only do they need around 400-500 lbs of roughage per day, but they typically completely destroy the trees they feed from, knocking them over before grabbing a few choice mouthfuls of leaves and/or bark.
The result has been the destruction of over 50% of Botswana's forested areas in recent years, and a signficant loss of habitat for most other plainsgame species. PH's in that country are lobbying hard to get the elephants culled down to sustainable numbers, and it seems they're finally making some headway.
Beyond Botswana, it's like anything else -- local situations vary with local conditions. But overall, elephant are doing very well these days -- and generally in need of controlled hunting over much of their range.
Other numbers I have read have elephant numbers at 1.3 million(I'll look for the reference). In most countries it is not the out of control poaching of the 80's, so populations have really picked up.
Just in the new today SA needs to do a major cull.
Just in the new today SA needs to do a major cull.
Crunchiespg,
I suppose it really isn't your fault, people have been lied to for so long, by so many people that they don't know what's true any more. Suffice it to say that you really should do a bit of research, before forming an opinion that isn't even close to reality.
I suppose it really isn't your fault, people have been lied to for so long, by so many people that they don't know what's true any more. Suffice it to say that you really should do a bit of research, before forming an opinion that isn't even close to reality.
My understanding is that the riverine habitat in Botswana has been severly damaged in recent years as a direct result of their elephants' need for copious amounts of bark in their daily diet.
Once the trees are lost the impact is felt not only by the elephants (which can move on) but also in a long-term manner by the other species which rely on the riverine environment for their survival and which may not be able to simply look for "greener pastures".
One unpleasant consequence is that, if overpopulated elephants aren't culled in a controlled manner, nature will take its course in the form of disease and starvation. The bigger impact, however, may actually be in the elephant-caused deforestation and the loss of other species who rely on a forest/river habitat.
The ability of the environment to grow trees is slow enough that the impact will be felt for a long time ("recovery" may in fact be an unrealistic expectation) and over a very wide swath of other species which share the elephants' habitat and may simply not survive the deforestation.
People in the West tend not to look at elephants as agents of deforestation. The reality is that, in some African countries, they have become precisely that.
Once the trees are lost the impact is felt not only by the elephants (which can move on) but also in a long-term manner by the other species which rely on the riverine environment for their survival and which may not be able to simply look for "greener pastures".
One unpleasant consequence is that, if overpopulated elephants aren't culled in a controlled manner, nature will take its course in the form of disease and starvation. The bigger impact, however, may actually be in the elephant-caused deforestation and the loss of other species who rely on a forest/river habitat.
The ability of the environment to grow trees is slow enough that the impact will be felt for a long time ("recovery" may in fact be an unrealistic expectation) and over a very wide swath of other species which share the elephants' habitat and may simply not survive the deforestation.
People in the West tend not to look at elephants as agents of deforestation. The reality is that, in some African countries, they have become precisely that.
well i admit i havnt researched the matter in depth, but a simple google search does say elephants are classed as endangered by the US and other main countries. as does the info at the zoo..
but if you are doing it out of need to sustain the population then i take my comments back. but im sure not everyone is! i personally couldnt shoot an elephant if you paid me. but whatever floats your boat..
What a person's motivation is, is of little importance compared to whether it is legal and sustainable. Most people wouldn't shoot a whitetail if you paid them either. Elephants are listed as CITES species to end international trade in ivory. They are listed as endangered because their habitat is rapidly being reduced by a human population explosion. Neither changes the numbers which are usually given as 500,000 to 800,000 depending on who is giving them. The normal population growth is 5% per year, and those countries that have them usually have too many. Sport hunting doesn`t make a dent in the population, and intense international pressure has limited the ability of African countries to conduct needed culling. If the choice is between space for people, and space for elephants (and it is) people are going to win every time.
The same people who have made so much money `saving` seals raises a lot of money saving elephants as well. It`s easy to save something that isn`t in short supply.
Edit to add:
I just realized that you aren't a big game hunter. The chances of you ever understanding are slim. I won't waste any more time on it.
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"well i admit i havnt researched the matter in depth, but a simple google search does say elephants are classed as endangered by the US and other main countries. as does the info at the zoo.. "
No need to explain your sources or lack of research, both are painfully obvious. You sure picked the right tooth to drill into if you wanted to hit a nerve.
Well-chosen avatar.
No need to explain your sources or lack of research, both are painfully obvious. You sure picked the right tooth to drill into if you wanted to hit a nerve.
Well-chosen avatar.
