Questions from new M14 owners (post here)

JeffMan

JeffMan

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There are going to be a lot of new M14S owners out there so I thought we might start a thread where the Expert owners can answer our Noob questions.

What do you say?

I've got a couple:

1. What is "out of the box" accuracy (highly subjective I know)? Hungry here: Ball ammo: 1.5 to 2.0 MOA, match ammo handloads: 1.25" sometimes the 1" group if you break the trigger in between heart beats.
2. Can I make the cheap stock work for me (work horse; camping, hiking, strap it to the back of my ATV, etc) or do I need to get a US G.I stock?
Just buy a USGI glass stock. The chinese wood stock is great for starting fires (lots of oil/petroleum byproducts)
3. My op-rod guide is loose; do I NEED to tighten it or can I leave it? Yer #### won't fall off if you leave it alone. Head over to Home Depot and buy a few 1/16" roll pins. Place an end cut of 2 x4 block of wood beneath the op rod guide and hammer the pin THROUGH the existing factory pin.

Jeff
 
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How do I get rid of that damn smell?

Hungry here: Buy a USGI glass stock. Lighter , stronger, stiffer, and not as smelly or carcinogenic as the unknown petroleum byproduct creosote preservative that the Kommunists put on there to kill you Kapitalists in Kanada.
 
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1) Where's the best place to get the tools needed to index my barrel?

Send me the barreled action and I can turn it around to you inside 24 hrs. (Hungry here)

2) Why does it LOOK like my chamber has an aluminum insert? (the colour)

'Cause it's chrome lined barrel... Way cool to prevent corrosion when you relive the Chuck Norris rescue mission back to Vietnam.

3) My action operates really rough. Will this change and get better, or is this the nature of the beast?

Grease the bolt lugs, raceways, op rod, op rod guide, underside of the bolt and then Shoot a couple of boxes of ammo through it....

4) How can you tell if your flash suppressor is soldered on? Is it obvious, or covered over? (mine won't come off after loosening the nut and whacking it with a block of wood.)

5) Is the round portion of the op rod supposed to line up perfectly with the gas cylinder and piston? Mine is not in perfect alignment.

Even my USGI (read: real M14's) TRW and Winchester M14's never lined up perfectly. Don't worry about that alignment or lack of alignment... unless the "figure 8" op rod guide is rattling loose on you. If it does, send it to me and I'll fix it for you... I do this lots for those Sproingfield owners with their expensive M1A's... and I won't tell anyone...

6) The lead-in for the chamber seems to be designed to properly feed rounds into the chamber off the mag stack. How do you know what the proper orientation of these contoured reliefs is? Doesn't barrel fit affect this?

Shzt no !! Darned if I've ever noticed after 20 years of building and competing with 'em...

7) Are there recommended ways to detail the reciever to clean up poor machining that will give the rifle better operation or just better esthetics, etc?

Remember that the Norinco M14 geometry is way better than the TRW geometry ever could be. Underside machine marks are like the NDP, function best when everyone ignores 'em...

Ummmm...I'll think of some more!
 
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JeffMan,

I'm by NO means an expert owner (as stated at the top of the thread) but I have been looking for USGI stocks for my 2 beasts I picked up in the previous Marstar shipment. I've found 2 sources:

1) Guys who have them on the board. They do come up from time to time both 'glass ones and real (read walnut) wood ones. I think there's actually one member who makes the wood ones if I'm not mistaken. They aren't cheap though. 'glass ones I've seen run as low as $100 and the wood ones can go up around $300.
2) US dealers. I haven't bought one from there and I'm not going to debate the "You can't do that, you need a permit" vs. "I do it all the time" vs. "I tried, and got screwed by <insert dealer here>" There are a number of sources in the US that have USGI stocks for around $30 - $50 USD. Guys on the board have had varying success in actually getting them shipped up here.
 
If you want a wood stock, go to www. boydboys.com. These are M1A stocks, and are therefore not subject to export controls, and are not cut for the M-14 selector unit, so you don't have to fill in the gaping hole; they are all also under US$100, and can therefore be exported without a hassle. Boyds does busuness with Canadians. Just make sure your total order is under US$100, then they won't have to tell you the bad news. If your order is over US$100, break it into smaller units. You'll pay more postage, but you will get your stuff. You have a choice of finished or unfinished, walnut, brown laminate or black laminate, in a couple of different styles.
You can practice glass bedding on the genuine chu wood original stock. The wood is soft, so generous application of bedding compound will help stabilize the barrelled action, if you choose not to restock. Get a kit of JB Weld, some paste wax, and have at it.
 
The flash suppressor is likely welded on. Look on the bottom rear, you may be able to see the spot welds. The area will have been cleaned up. To get the hider off, you will have to break the welds, drill or grind them out. Don't, unless you have a replacement on hand, because the hider is likely going to get messed up in the process. Ask yourself why you need to remove the hider.

Hungry here: You should see and hear all the KRAP, pounding, grinding, sawing of the Norinco flash hiders during the Abbotsford Clinic. Those of you who ordered my latest (Oct 2004) double CD set likely laughed yer asses off hearing all the hammering of the stubbornly welded FS's in the background. ha ha ha Just ask Skullboy or smgcon or pavehammer or Lazerus2000 or Rooster33 ... they were all there to witness the hell we put those FS's through.
 
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What is the difference between the standard M-14 stock and the National Match version stock, as supplied by Boyds?

Hungry here: The Boyd stock is fatter all over. Very meaty. The laminated (coffee colour is my fav) 1/16" birch strips are strong as fzck! The resin is diffused into the birch strips to give you a very durable and bombproof effect. The Boyd stock is stiff as hell for competition or long range shooting. Almost as stiff as the Mcmillan fat bastard stocks I used to compete with years ago shooting NRA High Power. The Boyd stock is pretty fat compared to the USGI walnut/birch/cherry wood stocks. Just a bit thicker than the USGI glass stock... actually almost 1/4" thicker everywhere.... I could be wrong here... maybe more like 3/16" thicker all around. Hey, I've sold my 2 USGI'ed Norinco rifles over 2 years ago.... I don't compete with them anymore since the bolts are just too expensive to work with (we used to buy them for $ 35 from NUMRICH back in 1986). At least when we compete in Service Rifle games, AR bolts are $ 70 give or take.
 
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nairbg said:
What is the difference between the standard M-14 stock and the National Match version stock, as supplied by Boyds?
Click to expand...

Size.
The NM stock has some extra 'meat' almost everywhere to make it stiffer (esp. in the forestock) and to allow a bit of customization.
 
What grain up bullets shoots well from the M305?

A web site with info on it? Exploded diagrams........

Whats recommended to make the gun a reasonably accurate rifle. realize it won't be a precision rifle, but close would be good.

I've got 2 coming. Scoping one and using open sights on the other.
 
Max Owner said:
What grain up bullets shoots well from the M305?

A web site with info on it? Exploded diagrams........

Whats recommended to make the gun a reasonably accurate rifle. realize it won't be a precision rifle, but close would be good.

I've got 2 coming. Scoping one and using open sights on the other.
Click to expand...

Your questions have not been answered and not all of your quires are satisfied by reading the stickies. So here is my best attempt:

NATO 7.62 X 51 is by specifications 150 grains loaded to 50,000 psi (there are different 7.62 bullets that NATO has used but this is the bullet that the M14 was more or less designed for). The NATO pressure is less than many commercial .308 rounds but military rifles can handle the increased loads due to greater pressure tolerances built as safety margins.

Most people agree that commercial .308 may be used safely. However, the general consensus is to stay away from the heavier bullets (i.e. 180 grains) as they will batter the action increasing wear and potentially damaging your rifle.

A useful exploded diagram to learn the nomenclature is located at:
h ttp://www.chestnutridge.com/14pic.asp

Accuracy upgrades appear to be (but are not limited to):

- Stiffer stock (G.I. Glass fiber)
- Remove play from operating guide rod
- fix the front band to the gas cylinder (see diagram)
- Ensure tight receiver to stock fit by bedding

Open sights seem to be a poor choice for accurate shooting since the elevation threads strip easy on the Norinco rifles. If you're going to use them, set them and leave them otherwise get U.S. G.I. sights.

Scoping can be done rather effectively with the Springfield 3rd generation mount and the ARMS #18 (I think). Other mounts, and even some of these recommended mounts, will create random problems such as continuously shifting zero, and action malfunctions.

Good luck with the twins (M14's)

Jeff
 
No, I don't think it warrants a smilie, Hungry isn't joking, is he? He's not doing or advocating something to provoke envy (Mr Green) and nether a Razz, a Roll Eyes nor a wink fits either.

No one should have to apologize for shining the light of knowledge upon someone. A little disabuse never hurt anyone.
 
I have a question that I can't find an answer for anywhere:

Why does the butt plate rotate upwards? Is it designed to assist the shooter in some way?

Jeff
 
Jeffman. Yes, in prone shooting, in rapid fire and especially in full-auto the "inverse hook buttplate" is supposed to help keep the rifle anchored to the shoulder.
 
In addition to Hungry's videos, get a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book. It has everything that you need to know about M-1 and M-14 type rifles. Brownells sells it, no doubt there are other sources. The NRA has printed a booklet as well.
The US National Match Match shooters learned years ago how to coax all possible accuracy from this type of rifle. If you want to maximize performance, use the techniques they perfected.
Unless you just want to be in a rush to spend money, clean the rifle up, and carefully test it. As is. Then bed the stock, using the established techniques. If you have some paste wax in the house, a JB Weld kit costs less than $10. Try the rifle again. Add the shims in the gas block - again low cost. Do the low cost things first, before you drop $400 in a new stock and scope mount.
 
JeffMan said:
NATO 7.62 X 51 is by specifications 150 grains loaded to 50,000 psi (there are different 7.62 bullets that NATO has used but this is the bullet that the M14 was more or less designed for). The NATO pressure is less than many commercial .308 rounds but military rifles can handle the increased loads due to greater pressure tolerances built as safety margins.
Jeff
Click to expand...

The dimensional specs of 7.62 X 51 and .308 are different.
However, I don't believe the pressure is much different.
I have read that the 50,000 PSI milspec is in CUP.
"Pressures for 7.62 are still taken in a copper crusher barrel and are recorded as psi because the DoD has not adopted the SAAMI designation of CUPs (Copper Units of Pressure)."

The SAMI 62,000 PSI is actual. CUP is always lower than PSI.

Nato spec is 2750 fps at 78 feet from the muzzle.

I cronyed an Indian NATO round and got 2821 about 10 ft from the muzzle.
I've chronyed factory whitebox Winchester FMJ .308 and got2713,2751,2745,2738,2757,2775,2758,2755,2734,2770.
The yellow box Remington UMC 150 FMJ .308 was 2844,2780,2776,2856,2740.

So the commercial .308 is slower than Nato 7.62 - hard to believe the commercial is loaded hotter than the NATO.
 
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