quick 45/70 vs 450 question

nelly250

nelly250

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hey all, i've decided to pick up a guide gun and I need some advice. I've been reading up on 45/70 and marlin 450. It has been said that for those who don't reload (like me) the 450 is the better choice because it is loaded up hotter. Is this still the case? because from what i've seen the only load available for the 450 is the hornady lever reveloution in 325 or 350 grains. Now, hornady offers the same bullet in the 45/70 (but about 200fps slower). So in that case the 450 is a bit faster, but there are a few other manufacturers that offer the 45/70 in a variety of loads, some of which are faster than the only load available in the 450. So, to me it seems as if the 45/70 would be the obvious choice as it offered in a number of different loads and is faster (when not handloaded). Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks. If it helps, the gun will primarily be a hunting rig, but like all my hunting guns, it will be shot more at targets than at animals.

Also, i have searched, but i am still unsure which cartridge is better suited for me.
 
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better choice is to learn to reload. If you shoot the thing more than a handful of times per year, you'll save money by handloading instead of buying overpriced factory ammo.

I wouldn't recommend either to a non-reloader. The factory offerings for both are limited and very expensive.
 
The 45/70 case holds more powder then the .450 however....factory loads are kept very light in the 45/70 because of the 125 year old guns it is chambered in.If you have a modern 45/70 and handload for it, you can load it slightly hotter then you can a .450, or the same handload in the 45/70 and .450 the 45/70 will have less pressure, it's just physics.
 
prosper said:
better choice is to learn to reload. If you shoot the thing more than a handful of times per year, you'll save money by handloading instead of buying overpriced factory ammo.
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reloading is on the agenda, unfortunately it may not happen anytime soon. I just don't want to be stuck in the mean time.


ben hunchak said:
factory loads are kept very light in the 45/70 because of the 125 year old guns it is chambered in.
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from what i've been reading it appears that there are a few different loads in 45/70 that are pretty hot and are designed specifically for the newer stronger rifles. This is what im hung up on. Are these newer 45/70 loads not readily available? Or am i reading something wrong?
 
45/70 vs. 450 Marlin

The Hornady Leverevolution ammo for these two cartridges is about the same price....but again, if you shoot a lot you will inevitably get into handloading and the .45/70 brass is a lot cheaper and I assure you, if you have a modern gun, you can load the .45/70 to at least equal the .450 Marlin and beyond..

For handloaders, the Hornady bullets are not yet available but for a handload that will be a dangerous game stopper, try the .458 cal. Remington 405 gr. SP over a good dose of 3031...
 
well i went with the .450. The rifle itself cost me a bit more than i had hoped to pay, but like i always say....you can always make more money. I made my decision on the caliber in light of the fact that i'll be solely using the hornady leverevolution ammo (unitil i learn to reload anyways) and the 450 was the beter performer. Thanks for the input guys.
 
I have shot 11 deer in 5 years with the .450 and with the standard RNFP bullet in the chest, 9 of them dropped on the spot. Ranges were from 20' to 90 yards. Two big holes, but no blood rot or lost meat in the front quarters.

The last 2 (including one last Saturday) were with the pointed Leverevolution ammo. Both big does, one at 75 yards and one at 50 yards. Both standing broadside chest shots, and in both cases they ran afterwards - one over 100 yards. In both cases their intestines were sucked through the diaphram and out the exit wound. Both ended up being gut-shot, even though the bullets were in the chest (in fact one took out the heart). In both cases there was a lot of shock damage and blood rot to the front quarters.

For 10 years I've used .444, 45-70 and .450 for deer. My own opinion, based on my experience, is that big bore is excellent for deer, providing you use the RNFP. The Leverevolution is probably best kept for the 150 - 250 yard shots, or for larger animals such as moose.

I'm no expert, but based on what I have seen, the LR bullets are so big, but still have so much more velosity, that they are not suitable for deer at the ranges that I shoot them.
 
thats very interesting and although I never would have thought it, it makes a lot of sense. I like my hunting rigs to be as versatile as possible, which is why the extra 200 or so fps of the 450 factory ammo was so appealing to me. It's pretty obvious that i'll have to get in to reloading to fully realize this rifle's/caliber's full potential. But, as always, when trying to be versatile there are always trade-offs. Anyways, im excited to get out to the range and see how she shoots.
 
45-70 is originally black powder cartridge... However, it has lots of potential with smokeless. Nevertheless, companies cannot load the 45-70 fully with smokeless because it would blew up the old guns. As a result, Marlin created 450 which is the same 45-70 with different case (so idiot wouldn't put it in the old gun) loaded with smokeless powder to the best.

Can you load 45-70 to the same level as 450 if you have a good new gun? Sue you can. However, if you don't reload, your choice is only slow version of 45-70....
 
A .45 caliber slug at 1600 fps is still just as lethal as one doing 1800 fps. Too much emphasis is put on velocity these days, I got 1630 fps out my guide gun loaded with 420 grain cast bullets. This velocity will knock bison flat all day long, the old black powder loads at a staggering 1100 fps was one of the reasons the buffalo disappeared in such large numbers.
 
The .450 Marlin is a belted .45-70. Ballistically, they're identical. The .450 will be loaded a bit hotter because the rifles it's chambered in are new. The .45-70 is loaded down because of all the lever actions and Trapdoor Springfields around. It can be loaded up to near .458 Win velocities if the rifle will handle it. Lever actions and most, but not all single shots, won't. Modern single shot rifles like the Rugers will handle hotter .45-70. The .45-70 is far more readily available in factory ammo too. You're more likely to find it in small places than you will the .450 Marlin.
The .450 is new. If you opt for the .450, buy at least 100 to 500 pieces of brass too. There's no telling if Marlin's marketing types will decide it's not meeting sales projections and drop it. They don't care if the people who bought rifles will be able to get ammo or not. Having brass, even if you're not reloading yet, will mean you'll be able to shoot in 5 years.
 
303carbine said:
A .45 caliber slug at 1600 fps is still just as lethal as one doing 1800 fps. Too much emphasis is put on velocity these days, I got 1630 fps out my guide gun loaded with 420 grain cast bullets. This velocity will knock bison flat all day long, the old black powder loads at a staggering 1100 fps was one of the reasons the buffalo disappeared in such large numbers.
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It's the drop what counts...
 
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