R.C.M.P Pistols

[riker]

One point not often mentioned in the auto/revolver debate for police is the superiority of the revolver in contact shootings. All of you who love the square gun, clear your pistol (check it twice) then push the muzzle into a cushion like you mean it, you will find that the trigger disconector stops the pistol from firing after the slide is about an eighth out of battery. In a contact range encounter your gun will make the worlds loudest sound -click

That should never happen, as you should never be that close to the bad guy!!
If you were to have a revolver, the suspect could just as easily grab the cylinder and keep the revolver from firing.
As for caliber, LEO’s should be using 45 ACP. No over penetration problems like the 40 and 9mm. 45 was the first choice of Ont police back in 1994, but were not allowed to have it, as some dumb ass that didn’t know about firearms thought it was just to powerful, like a dirty Harry 44 mag.

 

[skycrane]

.40 S&W the answer to a question that never needed to be asked.

40 cal is like sitting on the fench betweend choosing between a 9mm or 45 cal! lol....

 

[troutseeker]

Would another factor be that most revolvers including the model 10 are not Ambidextrous ? I mean there are left handed police officer out there.. oh wait looking at that pic it doesnt look like the new 9mm are ambidextrous are they????

The RCMP duty pistols come for lefty's as well. The little gun is affectionately knows as the "Barby" gun... It is also more prone to jamming as the frame is not steel and it needs copious amounts of lubricant to function properly. The mag capacity is also an issue... It was issued to people with really small hands and to undercover officers. Undercover officers now only get the bigger one.

Troutseeker

 

[cannonfodder]

Autos are far more ambidextrous than revolvers. Try doing a reload with one hand on a revolver.... Exactly! Very difficult to do, especially with speed loaders. Revolvers need two hands to reload. You can't top up a revolver!

CF

 

[Tuffcity]

The RCMP duty pistols come for lefty's as well

The only "lefty" thing about it is that the mag release can be switched to the right side.

 

[jaycee]

Not to be a nit-picker, but the RCMP issue single stack auto is the 3953, not the 3913. Both it and the 5946 have proven to be very reliable, although the 3953 seems to like a lot of lube.

 

[Young_Sniper]

My Father bought one of the old .38's in 1992 off a retired officer.

 

[kirill]

Why did the RCMP decide to go with a DAO pistol? I've read that in the 'states DAO pistols are chosen to prevent the officers from walking around with a cocked hammer, and thus insulating themselves from negligence lawsuits. Is this the same reason the RCMP chose a DAO?

 

[Mike K]

A DAO is quicker and easier to train with, particularily when they were transitioning over from a DA revolver.

 

[cybershooters]

Why do people short sell revolvers? They never jam and are usually a lot more accurate than an automtic.

Must just be the "cool factor".

I think I've had more problems with revolvers than I've ever had with semi-autos. Back in ye olde days when S&W was bulging at the seams with skilled fitters and polishers and the semi-auto was not perfected, you had a point, but not anymore. It is easier for an unskilled shooter to choke a semi-auto, that's true, by limp wristing it, but on the other hand they have less recoil because of the reciprocating slide.

One thing I will say is that revolvers are more reliable with corroded ammunition than semi-autos, which may sound silly but if you carry a gun all day in an open holster it does happen. If you get corrosion on the rim of a pistol round, you can get failures to extract and failures to eject. Less of a problem in a revolver.

No, I didn't have that problem recently. Erm... *cough*

 

[xxxtcie]

Why do people short sell revolvers? They never jam and are usually a lot more accurate than an automtic.

Must just be the "cool factor".

After going to the range to re-qualify with the .38, my finger gets REALLY sore after 50 rounds. Thats a lot of trigger pull poundage!!! When I go to the range and shoot my SIG, I can go through hundreds of rounds with no problems on the old finger!

With your .38 loaded up with 6 whole rounds, and a whoping 12 rounds on your belt, it seems that it takes forever to get off 18 rounds! You can go through WAY more rounds WAY quicker with an auto-loader. Then again, this is Canada, and the chances of being in a gun fight that lasts more than a few seconds is highly unlikey..... unless you live in Surrey!

 

[9mikemike]

"Especially when you can dump an entire mag of 15 plus the one up the pipe in about 3 seconds... "

kinda slow trigger finger ?? Ask Slavex about mine

 

[NAA]

Especially when you can dump an entire mag of 15 plus the one up the pipe in about 3 seconds...

kinda slow trigger finger ?? Ask Slavex about mine

My quote was for an 'average' shooter... I'm sure 'experts' can do quite a bit better... But the quote was meant to explain how, in a given situation, many rounds could be exchanged in an 'incident'. Especially, if you have multiple 'shooters'...

 

[David K]

.... Based on personal use of,specifically, the S&W Model 10 and the D/A only , 5946, the trigger pull weights are comparable. The difference comes when deliberate fire is called for, then the revolver has a SLIGHT edge. Certainly when it comes to rate of fire, for the first 6 anyway, I'd put the revolver ahead, by a SLIGHT margin. If one looks the real revolver experts, like the late Bill Jordan, then one could give the edge to the revolver. However, when you go beyond 6 rounds, then clearly the pistol has a MAJOR advantage over a revolver that has to be reloaded. As in most cases, there are trade-offs and compromises. The current trend of "spray and pray" has the potential to create huge civil liability issues,and has the potential to cause, or contribute to, Innocent lives being lost. Obviously, the answer is to increase and improve training, and more actual live fire range time ! .. David K.

 

[cannonfodder]

David K,
I agree with your point in regards to more training, can't have enough of that. On a personal note, I really couldn't care less about civil liability when it comes to a shoot scenario. Regardless of civilian or LEO encounter my goal is to win, not worry about getting sued or losing my job. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six. YMMV

CF

 

[kirill]

To add to my question about why RCMP went with a DAO pistol.
Here is a nice little nugget I found in the book Combat Handgunnery by Massad Ayoob, 5th ed., 2002, page 85

The Montreal Decision to go DAO came after the case of Crown v. Allan Gossett
...
Gossett had become a constable of the Montreal Police when they were still taught to shoot a revolver by cocking the hammer and squeezing off single-action shots at bull'seye targets. The night came when he was in pursuit of a felony suspect, and had to draw his issue S&W Model 10 .38 caliber service revolver. As the suspect spun toward Gossett, the constable was seen to jerk as if startled, and his gun fired. The violent jump of the gun with mild .38 recoil, and the look of shock on Gossett's face as it discharged, were noted by witnesses and tended to confirm the fact that it was an unintentional discharge.
...
he was untimately acquitted.
...
After Gossett's ordeal, Montreal got some decent gun-leather and ordered the Model 10s made DAO.
...
Montreal, when they went to autos, went DAO too, as did virtually all of Canadian law enforcement. While most provincial and municipal agencies in Canada chose the .40 caliber, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Montreal PD went with DAO Smith & Wesson pistols in 9mm.

It seems that fear of liability lawsuits is the reason law enforcement chooses double-action only.

 

[dingus]

Heres a NWMP Antique Enfeild revolver
This was used by the NWMP back in the late 1800s dated 1884
476 caliber. other side of grip has NWMP No 13 Canada

 

[NAA]

It seems that fear of liability lawsuits is the reason law enforcement chooses double-action only.

A lot of law enforcement agencies in Canada issue the Glock pistol. It is not a double action only. So much for that theory then, eh?

 

[tiriaq]

The Glock does require the trigger to be moved, though. Not as far or as heavy as a DAO pistol, but still more than a cocked single action trigger.

 

[Ljungman]

I want a 5946 sooo bad but the only ones I've seen that are Restricted only are the ones from Questar and they got that ulgy "bump" on the trigger guard. Ew.