R.E.A.L.bullets in Flinter
- Thread starter POPS
- Start date
pressure...!
...playing with internal pressure??? I would tend to stick with manufacturer recommended loads...
I would not try this with my made in india musket replica but with my T/C, i would as T/C basicaly make the same gun with a choice of cap or flint locks and these projectile are part of their recommended ones for the cap lock model...
I read that on the battle field soldiers would sometime load with double (even triple) projectiles... was this a safe practice?...military muskets had sloppy/loose tolerance so the pressure was maybe within the barrel pressure capacity?
I am curious to read the other CGN feedback on this...
...playing with internal pressure??? I would tend to stick with manufacturer recommended loads...
I would not try this with my made in india musket replica but with my T/C, i would as T/C basicaly make the same gun with a choice of cap or flint locks and these projectile are part of their recommended ones for the cap lock model...
I read that on the battle field soldiers would sometime load with double (even triple) projectiles... was this a safe practice?...military muskets had sloppy/loose tolerance so the pressure was maybe within the barrel pressure capacity?
I am curious to read the other CGN feedback on this...
I have heard of Ball-ets working good in 1 in 66" barrels. Why would you bother with using bullets, when balls work so well? I have used bullets from 240g to 380g, and even sabots in my 1 in 48" Deerstalker, and have found nothing that works better on Whitetails than the plain old round ball.
The lee REALs will be fine if your flinter is a modern barrel. 250gr is only slightly heavier than a .50 cal ball at 177gr. Back off the load by about 10gr from what you would safely use for a .50 ball, and go a little light for the first couple of tries. If you don't have one, get yourself a Lyman/Fadala blackpowder guide - the load charts in the back are very useful for keeping your load/bullet combos safe - you'll be surprised at the pressure variation.
The others can be used, but you'll need to dig up a load table for the bullet to see what the powder load will be to keep the pressures in check. The rule of thumb in the absence of gun manufacturer's literature to the contrary is to keep pressure under 10,000 lb for combination of charge and bullet. Generally, pressures go up with bullet weight, so you have to cut back on powder to keep the gun in the safe zone.
A caution with any multi-rib bullet like the REALs - check the bore fit carefully. Bore diameter between manufacturers is not consistent. Lymans are overbore by a couple of thou - the Italian guns tend to be right on or even a whisker under (land to land, vs groove to groove) Make sure you have the ability to extract a tight bullet (all the way to the bottom) before you try to push one down, and be rigorous about having a clean bore at the breech (fire ring about an inch or two up the bore from the charge) - you don't want these hanging up down barrel with an air gap. They should push down smoothly with a firm hand on the rod and steady pressure. If you have to really lean hard on them to get them down, they're too tight, and you'll need to take a little off the ribs (mind how you handle the lead dust if you sand them), or roll them between a couple hard surfaces to flatten the ribs a bit. Some guns do well with them , some the size match just isn't happy. Each gun has to have its load tuned for performance and safety - flinter's are not plug and play. There are reasons why firearms evolved into cartridge guns and it isn't only about convenience and rapid fire
Welcome to the 18th century!
The others can be used, but you'll need to dig up a load table for the bullet to see what the powder load will be to keep the pressures in check. The rule of thumb in the absence of gun manufacturer's literature to the contrary is to keep pressure under 10,000 lb for combination of charge and bullet. Generally, pressures go up with bullet weight, so you have to cut back on powder to keep the gun in the safe zone.
A caution with any multi-rib bullet like the REALs - check the bore fit carefully. Bore diameter between manufacturers is not consistent. Lymans are overbore by a couple of thou - the Italian guns tend to be right on or even a whisker under (land to land, vs groove to groove) Make sure you have the ability to extract a tight bullet (all the way to the bottom) before you try to push one down, and be rigorous about having a clean bore at the breech (fire ring about an inch or two up the bore from the charge) - you don't want these hanging up down barrel with an air gap. They should push down smoothly with a firm hand on the rod and steady pressure. If you have to really lean hard on them to get them down, they're too tight, and you'll need to take a little off the ribs (mind how you handle the lead dust if you sand them), or roll them between a couple hard surfaces to flatten the ribs a bit. Some guns do well with them , some the size match just isn't happy. Each gun has to have its load tuned for performance and safety - flinter's are not plug and play. There are reasons why firearms evolved into cartridge guns and it isn't only about convenience and rapid fire
Welcome to the 18th century!
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Copy of the Goex load chart, should give you an idea where to start.
MUZZLE LOADING LOAD CHART
CALIBER ROUNDBALL CONICAL SABOT CHARGE COMMENTS /
RATE OF TWIST
.32 cal 47 gr. 25 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.32 cal 60-80 gr. 25 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.32 cal 80-105 gr. 30 gr. 3F 1:48
.36 cal 65 gr. 35 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.36 cal 80-120 gr. 30 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.36 cal 120-130 gr. 35 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.36 cal 70-100 gr. 30 gr. 3F 1:48 or faster twist
.40 cal
(slow twist) 93 gr. 40 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.40 cal
(fast twist) 93 gr. 35 gr. 3F White, Inc. Rifles only
.40 cal
(fast twist) 275-320 gr. 70 gr. 2F Note 2F loads for White, Inc. Rifles only
.40 cal
(fast twist) 320-400 gr. 70 gr. 2F Heavier weight, reduce charge, White, Inc. Rifles only
.45 cal 127 gr. 70 gr. 2F For slow twist rifles
.45 cal 127 gr. 60 gr. 2F For fast twist rifles
.45 cal 200-300 gr. 80 gr. 2F Use only where allowed by manufacturer
.45 cal 300-400 gr. 85 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.45 cal 158 gr. in sabot 80 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.45 cal 200-350 gr. in sabot 80 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.50 cal 180 gr. 80 gr. 2F Slow twist
.50 cal 180 gr. 60 gr. 2F Reduce RB charge in fast twist rifles
.50 cal 245-350 gr. 80 gr. 2F Medium twist
.50 cal 350-425 gr. 85 gr. 2F 1:48 or faster
50 cal 425-600 gr. 90 gr. 2F Use only where allowed by manufacturer
.50 cal 240-300 gr. in sabot 80 gr. 2F Fast twist rifles only
.50 cal 300-450 gr. in sabot 85 gr. 2F Fast twist rifles only
.54 cal 220-230 gr. 80 gr. 2F Slow twist
.54 cal 220-230 gr. 70 gr. 2F Reduce RB charge in fast twist rifles
.54 cal 350-450 gr. 90 gr. 2F Medium twist
.54 cal 450-600 gr. 95 gr. 2F Medium twist
.54 cal 240-300 gr. in sabot 90 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.54 cal 300-450 gr. in sabot 95 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.58 cal 280-290 gr. 70 gr. 2F Slow twist replica firearms
.58 cal 280-290 gr. 75 gr. 2F Reduce charge for modern, fast twist rifles
.58 cal 450-550 gr. 90 gr. 2F Modern, rifles 1:48 or faster twist
.58 cal 240-350 gr. in sabot 95 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.69 & .75 cal 490-525 gr. 70 gr. 2F Maximum charge for replica rifles
MUZZLE LOADING LOAD CHART
CALIBER ROUNDBALL CONICAL SABOT CHARGE COMMENTS /
RATE OF TWIST
.32 cal 47 gr. 25 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.32 cal 60-80 gr. 25 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.32 cal 80-105 gr. 30 gr. 3F 1:48
.36 cal 65 gr. 35 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.36 cal 80-120 gr. 30 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.36 cal 120-130 gr. 35 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.36 cal 70-100 gr. 30 gr. 3F 1:48 or faster twist
.40 cal
(slow twist) 93 gr. 40 gr. 3F 1:48 or slower
.40 cal
(fast twist) 93 gr. 35 gr. 3F White, Inc. Rifles only
.40 cal
(fast twist) 275-320 gr. 70 gr. 2F Note 2F loads for White, Inc. Rifles only
.40 cal
(fast twist) 320-400 gr. 70 gr. 2F Heavier weight, reduce charge, White, Inc. Rifles only
.45 cal 127 gr. 70 gr. 2F For slow twist rifles
.45 cal 127 gr. 60 gr. 2F For fast twist rifles
.45 cal 200-300 gr. 80 gr. 2F Use only where allowed by manufacturer
.45 cal 300-400 gr. 85 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.45 cal 158 gr. in sabot 80 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.45 cal 200-350 gr. in sabot 80 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.50 cal 180 gr. 80 gr. 2F Slow twist
.50 cal 180 gr. 60 gr. 2F Reduce RB charge in fast twist rifles
.50 cal 245-350 gr. 80 gr. 2F Medium twist
.50 cal 350-425 gr. 85 gr. 2F 1:48 or faster
50 cal 425-600 gr. 90 gr. 2F Use only where allowed by manufacturer
.50 cal 240-300 gr. in sabot 80 gr. 2F Fast twist rifles only
.50 cal 300-450 gr. in sabot 85 gr. 2F Fast twist rifles only
.54 cal 220-230 gr. 80 gr. 2F Slow twist
.54 cal 220-230 gr. 70 gr. 2F Reduce RB charge in fast twist rifles
.54 cal 350-450 gr. 90 gr. 2F Medium twist
.54 cal 450-600 gr. 95 gr. 2F Medium twist
.54 cal 240-300 gr. in sabot 90 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.54 cal 300-450 gr. in sabot 95 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.58 cal 280-290 gr. 70 gr. 2F Slow twist replica firearms
.58 cal 280-290 gr. 75 gr. 2F Reduce charge for modern, fast twist rifles
.58 cal 450-550 gr. 90 gr. 2F Modern, rifles 1:48 or faster twist
.58 cal 240-350 gr. in sabot 95 gr. 2F Fast twist only
.69 & .75 cal 490-525 gr. 70 gr. 2F Maximum charge for replica rifles
THATS QUITE AN ARRAY OF OPINIONS
ITS A MODERN FLINTER WITH A SPANISH BARREL.(10,000psi proof) . i do have a LYMANS black powder manual.miked my barrel,.lands and grooves. .503 /.5155 rather shallow groves. will try some 250 R.E.A.L. LEES but don't think i will go any heavier. guess i will now have to purchase a 54 or 58 cal. flinter.
i knew this would happen one is never enough HAVE TO WORK ON A SHIP AT TOFINO NEXT WEEKEND,BUT WILL BE HOME SUNDAY ,IN TIME 4 THE RENDEVOUS AT THE NANAIMO FISH & GAME CLUB. LOOKING FORWARD TO MEETING SOME OF YOU THERE. POPS a.k.a. BIG BEAR a.k.a.GLENN
ITS A MODERN FLINTER WITH A SPANISH BARREL.(10,000psi proof) . i do have a LYMANS black powder manual.miked my barrel,.lands and grooves. .503 /.5155 rather shallow groves. will try some 250 R.E.A.L. LEES but don't think i will go any heavier. guess i will now have to purchase a 54 or 58 cal. flinter. i knew this would happen one is never enough HAVE TO WORK ON A SHIP AT TOFINO NEXT WEEKEND,BUT WILL BE HOME SUNDAY ,IN TIME 4 THE RENDEVOUS AT THE NANAIMO FISH & GAME CLUB. LOOKING FORWARD TO MEETING SOME OF YOU THERE. POPS a.k.a. BIG BEAR a.k.a.GLENN
As with most things, try working up a reduced load and see what your rifle likes best. The Lyman Black Powder manual is a good resource for load data.
I've tried TC Maxi-balls and Remington conicals in my TC .50 Hawken flintlock and they shot quite well with Triple Seven (and a ~5-10 grain initiating charge of black powder). The good thing about the TC's is their steel. In the .54 flinter (Lyman Trade Rifle), I've generally used (230 gr) round balls. For simply shooting targets, RB's are plenty and generate less recoil than a R.E.A.L. or Buffalo Bullet.
Are you hunting big game with it or just punching paper?
I've tried TC Maxi-balls and Remington conicals in my TC .50 Hawken flintlock and they shot quite well with Triple Seven (and a ~5-10 grain initiating charge of black powder). The good thing about the TC's is their steel. In the .54 flinter (Lyman Trade Rifle), I've generally used (230 gr) round balls. For simply shooting targets, RB's are plenty and generate less recoil than a R.E.A.L. or Buffalo Bullet.
Are you hunting big game with it or just punching paper?
A Zone
HELLO A-Z, JUST GETTING THE FEEL FOR MY FLINTER. HAVE CAST SOME .490 dia./177gr. RBs. (HAVE QUITE A BIT OF LEAD). will use it on our small island deer,this fall,if i am comfortable with its and my performance.(My off-sider will be with me with a centerfire.just in case. it will be a target and FUN gun,more than anything else.i have enough shotguns,centerfire and rimfires for hunting. looking forward to going back to the 1800s, where i was supposed to be,instead of getting stuck in the 20/21 century.now if i can only find my leather britches,i shall endevor to get on with it CHEERS POPS (GLENN)
HELLO A-Z, JUST GETTING THE FEEL FOR MY FLINTER. HAVE CAST SOME .490 dia./177gr. RBs. (HAVE QUITE A BIT OF LEAD). will use it on our small island deer,this fall,if i am comfortable with its and my performance.(My off-sider will be with me with a centerfire.just in case. it will be a target and FUN gun,more than anything else.i have enough shotguns,centerfire and rimfires for hunting. looking forward to going back to the 1800s, where i was supposed to be,instead of getting stuck in the 20/21 century.now if i can only find my leather britches,i shall endevor to get on with it
CHEERS POPS (GLENN)If you're hunting Island deer, I think you should be fine with the .50 cal RB's. As one guy put it "if you put a half-inch hole through a deer's chest, you've got your deer". I tend to agree. Pure lead round balls have remarkable penetration.
Happy hunting.
Happy hunting.
