Rail System/Keymod vs Section Rail on Handguard

M

mini15

Regular
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Location
Toronto, ON
I tried doing research about these little known devices that are substitutes for 1lbs rail systems/expensive Keymod systems. Apparently they aren't that unknown since the CF decided it was their solution to create a modular platform.

Anyway I want to hear from the tactical experts on this one and if my logic is sound.

So the AR15 is a light weight platform. Light weight is a hallmark of this design. During the 2004-08 quad rail craze a lot of people forgot about this and most peoples AR's weighed in the 10lbs range.

An average civilian shooter will have what for accessories realistically? A VFG, bipod and maybe a flashlight, if that. Actually the same goes for most soldiers except some might have a huge ANPEQ device which might necessitate a quad rail. Apparently that doesn't stop the CF from using these devices though.

So what am I talking about? It's these little rail sections that bolt on to the stock A2 ultra lightweight plastic handguard.

thumbnail-modular-picatinny-rails-cadex.png


And this thing that mounts to the stock FSP/Gasblock

C7_C8_tri-rail_mount-800x800_large_large.jpg


Seems like you could mount all three accessories I would ever need without having to ad the dreaded weight of a quad rail. On top of that you would keep a decent rifle handguard which is way better on your hands then a rail system or even one with panels/ladders installed.


Now I know that this could impart some inconsistencies on the barrel thus reducing accuracy. However I'm talking strictly non-freefloat here. So how would this compare to say mounting the same accessories on a non-freefloat quad rail like the standard USGI KAC M5RAS?


Discuss.
 
Light weight rails are often lighter than factory handguards, and are both more durable and easier to align. You can also control the length of the handguard, giving you more options on how you grip the gun.

This is a good system for issue guns that can't be modified significantly. But this approach is generally inferior.
 
Knight's Armament 3.1 URX is one of the lightest rails on the market and a great option.

The KAC M4 and M5 RAS is a popular option with Allied SF forces instead of the tri rail.

The reason the tri rail and additional rails on the C8/C7A2 were used is due to not wanting to "modify" the rifle.

Most weapon/gear choices made by the CF as a whole aren't brought in by "shooters/gun guys".
 
misanthropist said:
Light weight rails are often lighter than factory handguards, and are both more durable and easier to align. You can also control the length of the handguard, giving you more options on how you grip the gun.

This is a good system for issue guns that can't be modified significantly. But this approach is generally inferior.
Click to expand...


I've got a 20" full size AR15. Even DD's "Lite Rail" comes in at 13oz, I haven't weighed the two pieces of my hand guard but I can guarantee they don't weigh nearly as much.

Farmboy said:
Knight's Armament 3.1 URX is one of the lightest rails on the market and a great option.

The KAC M4 and M5 RAS is a popular option with Allied SF forces instead of the tri rail.

The reason the tri rail and additional rails on the C8/C7A2 were used is due to not wanting to "modify" the rifle.

Most weapon/gear choices made by the CF as a whole aren't brought in by "shooters/gun guys".
Click to expand...

The 3.1 URX that would fit my 20" comes in at just over one lbs judging by the specs in KAC's catalog. Heavier then the M5 RAS which is exactly the benchmark of weight I'm trying to avoid.

My stock M16 clone right now comes in at 7 1/2lbs, I don't want anything over an 8lbs gun.


I'm surprised you would discredit the Trirail considering you're the only person who stocks it and if I bought one it would be off of you.
 
Talking about 10 lbs rifles, just look at our M203A1 mount...

mini15 said:
The 3.1 URX that would fit my 20" comes in at just over one lbs judging by the specs in KAC's catalog. Heavier then the M5 RAS which is exactly the benchmark of weight I'm trying to avoid.

My stock M16 clone right now comes in at 7 1/2lbs, I don't want anything over an 8lbs gun.
Click to expand...

What do you intend on mounting onto the rifle? A grip? One of the simplest ways to mount a grip on a hand guard was to source out those old C9A1 grips that simply bolted onto the hand guard without adding any other hardware. Those rail sections that you can bolt onto the hand guards work fine.

Leaving the stock hand guards aside, I think the magpul MOE's are capable of mounting grips with simple bolts. Likewise, you can add rail sections to their sides to mount a flash light.

We need tri-ads or RAS's for a simple reason. You can get away with going the cheap way for a grip or a flashlight, but PEQ 2's and 4's need to be zeroed. Most hand guards you're out to find are somewhat wobbly and cannot hold a zero. Some tri-ads neither for that matter but that's a whole other story.
 
Last edited:
I'm surprised you would discredit the Trirail considering you're the only person who stocks it and if I bought one it would be off of you.
Click to expand...

We provide some items like that and the AR wedge, cause guys want to build CF replica firearms. Unless you're doing that, there are better options.

I prefer not to sell you something just to sell you something.
 
A factory 12" handguard set weights about 11.5 ounces with the delta ring assembly barrel nut and front metal.

Now add in the weight of your tri rail and/or individual rail segments, and your weight is up to 13 or 14 ounces, for a non-free floated rail.


The Daniel Defense light rail (including barrel/lock up system) is 13.9 ounces.

Now I'm not a big fan of the cheese grater rail systems, so a modular rail like the Noveske NSR (10 ounces for the 11", 11 ounces for the 13.5) or Geissele SMR (especially the MK-4 13" at 12.8 Ounces) will be even lighter. I won't count the front sight post if you take that off and go with a low profile, as you'll add a flip up front sight which'll likely balance out in the end.

AND you get the huge benefit of a free floated barrel.


So these days the benefit of weight staying with a factory plastic handguard is not there. You can even go crazy and get a Carbon fiber handguard, which can weight as little as 6 ounces (12" length) without rail sections.
 
Okay looks like I may have overestimated the weight of modern rail systems. It is surprising though that newer type quad rails are lighter then some of the Keymod systems out there.

yohann160 said:
What do you intend on mounting onto the rifle? A grip? One of the simplest ways to mount a grip on a hand guard was to source out those old C9A1 grips that simply bolted onto the hand guard without adding any other hardware. Those rail sections that you can bolt onto the hand guards work fine.
We need tri-ads or RAS's for a simple reason. You can get away with going the cheap way for a grip or a flashlight, but PEQ 2's and 4's need to be zeroed. Most hand guards you're out to find are somewhat wobbly and cannot hold a zero. Some tri-ads neither for that matter but that's a whole other story.
Click to expand...

I plan to mount a VFG, light and possibly a bi-pod.

It's nice to see that there are some pretty light rail systems available, however at the end of the day they are all cheese graters on the hands, not nearly as comfortable as a stock hand guard unless you start adding panels/rail ladders.

I am a big fan of the old Retro A1 hand guard, using a Tri-rail would allow me to have modern modularity with the ability to keep this hand guard on.

My concern now is about the effect of these said accessories on accuracy.

The stock hand guard is not free float. I can see a bi-pod under weight of the shooting really putting stress on the barrel. I don't know about a VFG or a flash light but the same concern exists for those.

I could see the bi-pod being a no go, how does a flash light and a VFG with the shooter torquing on it during use fair as far as impact on accuracy is concerned?
 
A.T.R. said:
KAC URX 3.1 and don't look back.
Click to expand...

It's 20oz's, heavier then the M5 which at least has rails everywhere. I don't see why you would want less rails for more weight.

On another note, the Cadex Triad Rail thing is actually $200, I was seriously considering it until I saw that. I could buy a full lightweight RAS system for cheaper... Whoever purchases gear for the CF...
 
mini15 said:
It's 20oz's, heavier then the M5 which at least has rails everywhere. I don't see why you would want less rails for more weight.

On another note, the Cadex Triad Rail thing is actually $200, I was seriously considering it until I saw that. I could buy a full lightweight RAS system for cheaper... Whoever purchases gear for the CF...
Click to expand...

Retail pricing Vs Govt contract pricing...can often be VASTLY different.

Back in the day, when US bought the Beretta M9, retail was around $600...govt contract was about $150. And when FN got the second major contract for M-16A2's, retail was around $1000, but contract was $150. That said, Canadian govt is buying small numbers, so they probably don't get such low prices... but its likely lower than retail.
 
RickR1100 said:
Retail pricing Vs Govt contract pricing...can often be VASTLY different.

Back in the day, when US bought the Beretta M9, retail was around $600...govt contract was about $150. And when FN got the second major contract for M-16A2's, retail was around $1000, but contract was $150. That said, Canadian govt is buying small numbers, so they probably don't get such low prices... but its likely lower than retail.
Click to expand...

The exception to that would seem to be CAF's procurement system. You should see what we pay for bulk C77 Ball ammunition (62gr 556). You can find better deals on SFRC...

mebiuspower said:
Sprinkled with unicorn fart... what makes you think unicorn farts are free?
Click to expand...

lmao. Unicorn farts are supposed to make them stronger, no? I've broken 2 now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom