RAMP - What does everyone think?

Lazy Ike said:
The same ones I've been saying for the last couple of years? If you ain't up to speed by now, I doubt another post will help.
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I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate the input if you could just provide me with a link to what you are doing, that would be great. Thanks
 
Moon said:
Sheephunter, I hope what I am about to write is taken constructively to advance the discussion.

There is always going to be a fringe group that will suggest plots, schemes and misrepresentation if ANY single person or group of individuals outside of a recognized organization attempts to dissolve RAMP looking for support from fellow hunters and outdoorspersons. This has already been proven to be true with this issue.

It apparently mattered little that one particular group, against OSA, publically and repeatedly were compelled to state that they represented nobody but themselves and were only supplying information to inform other outdoorspeople in the hope that letters would be written and appropriate action taken.

Honestly, why in the world would any individual or group want to put themselves through that wringer again?

I would far rather see the AFGA spearhead such a petition (if that is deemed a good use of resources) and allow a method for identifying a petitioner as an AFGA member or not.
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It's taken very constructively Moon. I've got nothing against an AFGA petition at all but I think the AFGA vote on the motion at the 2009 conference also fills that niche to some degree and their continued opposition is noted. Pudel threw out an idea and I offered some constructive suggestions...nothing more. I never claimed they were right or wrong just my personal thoughts and he can do with them as he sees fit. My thought is that AFGA is already doing a lot and we should all support that but Morton has made it clear the AFGA does not represent the average hunter, the hunter he designed RAMP for. So I see merit in opposition coming from another perceived direction even though I'm sure there is considerable crossover. Truthffully I think Pudel's idea has considerable merit.

I'll resist the temptation to point out all the folly in your ARHJ analogy...we've been down that road enough times.
 
Omega said:
I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate the input if you could just provide me with a link to what you are doing, that would be great. Thanks
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I know that Ike has been involved in some "negative pressure" towards the government's program. All of Ike's correspondence would back that up if you chose to read.

What may I ask Mr. Omega, have you done? Could I find a link to the perils of paid hunting on your website?
 
norskie said:
I know that Ike has been involved in some "negative pressure" towards the government's program. All of Ike's correspondence would back that up if you chose to read.

What may I ask Mr. Omega, have you done? Could I find a link to the perils of paid hunting on your website?
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I'm sure Ike can speak for himself and will as soon as he gets a chance.
 
crazy_davey said:
Most of us would be happy if you quit posting. :)
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It's always nice when the moderators stay constructive. WTF. Look up the term "moderator" will you.

Look, I do not know who the vast majority of you are. I have no faces or names to go with you CGN name, and many others do not either. I did not see Omega's inquiry into Ike's efforts to defeat RAMP/OS/HFH as so offensive to deserve the rude responses he (she?) has gotten so far.

I do not know who Ike is, maybe Omega does not either, maybe he does and WAS being a smart ass, who knows. I do not know what Ike has done so far. But I may find it helpful to know what has or has not worked for him. I am more than sure that Lazy Ike can answer a thread for himself (herself) and does not require others to jump to his rescue (unless Lazy Ike is really hot chick with big hooters, in which case that would explain some poster's zeal).

If your attitude is:

"Well I (we) have been fighting this thing since day 1, and who the f*&k are you? Where have you been? What have you done?"

....then please stay off this thread, or read and then just speak what you have to the screen and imagine the other person heard it, okay?

I was hoping that those who obviously hate each other could put aside their differences to brainstorm on how we can stop this BS. But it just keeps going. If this is all you guys (gals) can manage to accomplish, a pissing match between people who believe the SAME FU*KING THING, then RAMP is here to stay and HFH will likely follow.

For god's sake, like it or not, you are all on the same team! Stop criticizing each other and stop being so f'ing defensive. If you think someone is criticizing you, who f'ing cares! Ignore it! If someone calls you a child molester, well go ahead and rant. But someone questions your grammar or reading comprehension and you go off topic for multiple posts making personal attacks? Come on.

What I find most interesting is that everyone is treating those who indicate (some) support for RAMP better then those who have publicly agreed with each other. Now I am not saying be uncivil towards those who post support for RAMP, as I believe that they have every right to share how they feel, and I appreciate their input. I just want everyone to keep their posts on topic, and sarcasm free; save that for other threads that are not so charged.

Some accuse others of baiting, well do not bite. Sheite disturbers will be dealt with by the moderators (who will hopefully stick to moderating if they have nothing constructive to add) as required.

Carry on.
 
Not bad. If I drop one off it will stay on the counter. I mentioned Calgary and the other stores, and it was suggested that mgmt there may not be okay with it.

Part of the issue now is the new owners (UFA), and although hunters may see it as positive that they would allow the petition in WSS, many farmers who shop at UFA may not be like minded.

I think if it was delivered by hand to hunting / sporting goods shops around the province that it would be received okay.

A PM provided me with some information to look at, and I will as soon as I get some time.
 
Pudelpointer said:
It's always nice when the moderators stay constructive.
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At least we stay constructive and aren't booting people off the site and let others stay cause they're buddies, and can break the rules, unlike some other sites.

We'll put the moderator comments to bed now, if you've got anything else to say on the subject of moderating please feel free to p.m. me at your earliest convenience. Any other posts made not on topic will be deleted by me without an explanation.
 
Pudelpointer said:
It's always nice when the moderators stay constructive. WTF. Look up the term "moderator" will you.

Look, I do not know who the vast majority of you are. I have no faces or names to go with you CGN name, and many others do not either. I did not see Omega's inquiry into Ike's efforts to defeat RAMP/OS/HFH as so offensive to deserve the rude responses he (she?) has gotten so far.

I do not know who Ike is, maybe Omega does not either, maybe he does and WAS being a smart ass, who knows. I do not know what Ike has done so far. But I may find it helpful to know what has or has not worked for him. I am more than sure that Lazy Ike can answer a thread for himself (herself) and does not require others to jump to his rescue (unless Lazy Ike is really hot chick with big hooters, in which case that would explain some poster's zeal).

If your attitude is:

"Well I (we) have been fighting this thing since day 1, and who the f*&k are you? Where have you been? What have you done?"

....then please stay off this thread, or read and then just speak what you have to the screen and imagine the other person heard it, okay?

I was hoping that those who obviously hate each other could put aside their differences to brainstorm on how we can stop this BS. But it just keeps going. If this is all you guys (gals) can manage to accomplish, a pissing match between people who believe the SAME FU*KING THING, then RAMP is here to stay and HFH will likely follow.

For god's sake, like it or not, you are all on the same team! Stop criticizing each other and stop being so f'ing defensive. If you think someone is criticizing you, who f'ing cares! Ignore it! If someone calls you a child molester, well go ahead and rant. But someone questions your grammar or reading comprehension and you go off topic for multiple posts making personal attacks? Come on.

What I find most interesting is that everyone is treating those who indicate (some) support for RAMP better then those who have publicly agreed with each other. Now I am not saying be uncivil towards those who post support for RAMP, as I believe that they have every right to share how they feel, and I appreciate their input. I just want everyone to keep their posts on topic, and sarcasm free; save that for other threads that are not so charged.

Some accuse others of baiting, well do not bite. Sheite disturbers will be dealt with by the moderators (who will hopefully stick to moderating if they have nothing constructive to add) as required.

Carry on.
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Thank you.
I'm very interested in what Ike is/has or proposes to do on fighting RAMP. I've done the usual letters and emails without results. Because of Ted's belief that the AFGA doesn't speak for Joe Alberta hunter I don't think these tactics are going to work. We need to reduce the issue to a level where Joe's voice is heard. The money is the only way I can think of this happening. If the average taxpayer learns of the cost of RAMP they will rebel and RAMP will become user pay, then we as the users can make our voices heard very loudly by not paying. Not utilizing the RAMP lands and then someone has to pay attention. Am I wrong? Please feel free to show me the errors of my thoughts and point me in a direction that is better and more productive use of my time.
 
Hey Pudel, if I could offer a little further advice, it would be to avoid the use of the words "paid hunting", "paid access" and such in your petition. Ted has repeatedly said it's not and whether it is or isn't really doesn't matter because if you use those words in a petition and the opposition brings up the petition in the legislature, it gives him an easy out by just saying it's not "paid hunting," once again deflecting the attention from the real issue...RAMP. Stick to wording that offers no debate. Again, just my personal thoughts.
 
Pudelpointer said:
I do not know who Ike is, maybe Omega does not either, maybe he does and WAS being a smart ass, who knows. I do not know what Ike has done so far. But I may find it helpful to know what has or has not worked for him. I am more than sure that Lazy Ike can answer a thread for himself (herself) and does not require others to jump to his rescue (unless Lazy Ike is really hot chick with big hooters, in which case that would explain some poster's zeal)..
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As a courtesy to you pudel

I've done what any concerned hunter would do:

Many letters to Ted and Ed.
Harassing my friends and aquaintances in the media .
Providing information to my connections in the AAMDC.
Providing information to my connections in the ACA
Funneling all the hunters I know(personally) to the ARHJ website and providing them with other OC/RAMP related links.
I've also had the opportunity to discuss this with a few MLA's.

I'm no heavyweight, just an average Alberta Hunter. The very same demographic Ted claims he is trying to help.


Now if Omega is too busy to give you the same courtesy, I would be happy to forward his many PM's to me, that will help you form a better opinion on what he's done and what's working for him.
 
Omega said:
Thank you.
I'm very interested in what Ike is/has or proposes to do on fighting RAMP. I've done the usual letters and emails without results. Because of Ted's belief that the AFGA doesn't speak for Joe Alberta hunter I don't think these tactics are going to work. We need to reduce the issue to a level where Joe's voice is heard. The money is the only way I can think of this happening. If the average taxpayer learns of the cost of RAMP they will rebel and RAMP will become user pay, then we as the users can make our voices heard very loudly by not paying. Not utilizing the RAMP lands and then someone has to pay attention. Am I wrong? Please feel free to show me the errors of my thoughts and point me in a direction that is better and more productive use of my time.
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Again the money is not THE issue. IF and thats a big IF it becomes user pay, you are playing into Ted's hands. He already said he wants landowners selling their tags to the highest bidder. He said nothing about those bidders being Albertan.
 
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