Range report "finally" , With the M305 i've been preparing. So the Good & The bad ..

My CASM fix: What's happening?

Hey, up!
So, where you at now?
When I mounted my Redfield on my (correctly installed) CASM, I was 9" high at 25 yds.
Of course I bottomed out just as I was nearing the bull. I wrote to Frank at m14. and he replied that my receiver could be
'out of spec' where his forward vertical screw contacts, thereby changing the angle of the rail.
I loosened everything off and raised the front of the CASM ~3/16". That made the rail level with the bore.
At the range my first rnd @25yd was spot on for elevation (!)...but 4" right. I spun that windage turret left til it stopped, but I
was still shooting 2" right...
I'm using these Millet 1" rings which have this ability to adjust side-to-side. Their setup seems weird as there's no way to
see how much those adjustments are effecting the sight until it's all torqued down again. Trial and error? I centred the reticle
to its default windage setting then yawed the scope ~2-4(?) degrees to the right. That got me close enough to use
some left clickage to bring me right on target. I then tried my luck at 100 yd where I was able to zero in. With the last 3 rds
I had with me I hit 1 MOA.

I guess it was those Millet rings that enabled me to do that, but I found them very fiddly to work with.
IDK how else you could change that windage alignment....
 
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Yeah, the Milletts can help out that way, but I sure hope you lapped the rings after you got them the way you wanted them. They can puts lots of uneven pressure and stress on the scope tube if you just start cranking away at them and then tighten the tops on. At least lay the scope in the ring bottoms and slide it back and forth to see if it's being squeezed or pinched.
 
Sporting Lad said:
Hey, up!
So, where you at now?
When I mounted my Redfield on my (correctly installed) CASM, I was 9" high at 25 yds.
Of course I bottomed out just as I was nearing the bull. I wrote to Frank at m14. and he replied that my receiver could be
'out of spec' where his forward vertical screw contacts, thereby changing the angle of the rail.
I loosened everything off and raised the front of the CASM ~3/16". That made the rail level with the bore.
At the range my first rnd @25yd was spot on for elevation (!)...but 4" right. I spun that windage turret left til it stopped, but I
was still shooting 2" right...
I'm using these Millet 1" rings which have this ability to adjust side-to-side. Their setup seems weird as there's no way to
see how much those adjustments are effecting the sight until it's all torqued down again. Trial and error? I centred the reticle
to its default windage setting then yawed the scope ~2-4(?) degrees to the right. That got me close enough to use
some left clickage to bring me right on target. I then tried my luck at 100 yd where I was able to zero in. With the last 3 rds
I had with me I hit 1 MOA.

I guess it was those Millet rings that enabled me to do that, but I found them very fiddly to work with.
IDK how else you could change that windage alignment....
Click to expand...

Pretty much exactly like mine - 4 inches @25yards is 4x that at 100 right so 16 inches out which is a-lot tbh and if its 5" not 4 then its 20 so basically exactly the same as mine.

the nice thing about the burris rings is they dont twist on the scope since the inserts automatically level even or slide to adjust what ever you want to call it.

i can say from what burris calls 20"@100yards adjustment insert its not much of a adjustment visually to make that happen imho.
So if these rails are even slightly off when milled or the sight pocket is out even a touch , or the rings are twisting somehow.
It could be real easy to have it off center like were experiencing.

haven't shot it yet but i can still adjust the rear sight if these burris inserts aren't exactly what they are supposed to be since i used the +-20" insert.
 
I had the same problem with a Savage 17HMR of running out of windage adjustment with a Vortex 6-18x44 Crossfire II. It turned out to be the rings. I had a set of cheaper rings sitting around (Burris I think) and to fix the problem I switched them around (turned 180 or back to front) until I got it close to where the scope centre was. I normally don't use cheap rings and I thought sense they were sitting around I might as well try them.
 
What "inserts"?

Hmmm, yeah. One of the problems with scoping an M-14 is that there's no practical way of bore sighting it. I just mounted the scope on rail, crossed my fingers, and put a 3'x4' target at 25 yd. My first round hit ~9" high and right...
Now that I've got my 100yd zero (I ran out of ammo with my final 2 rd 3/4" apart in the 1" bull)--I'm afraid to touch anything. The reticle has used
75% of its windage range to hit my POA. I've got to get back out to the range again.

My Millet rings don't have any 'inserts'.
 
I had a Nork M305 once (not long ago) that I could not zero with a scope too. Same problem exactly and about as bad... I could not hit an 8.5x11 paper from 20 yards. (Iron sights were fine though)
I sold that rifle to a guy at hunt camp, then bought another one and the new one is fine.
 
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Here is how I set up the mount on my M305 and about half a dozen ones for friends. Most of this I have learned from looking over the good stuff from Tactical Teacher. It is only four steps and could be something to try, as you would have nothing to lose.

One: First thing I did is looked at how much the barrel was out of index. One friend's was out by a bit, so that one had to be fixed. Most of the rest were slightly off including two that maxed out the front sight windage (one is mine).

Two: The next thing was to actually sight in the iron sights. I know some mounts use the rear sight as a base, but that is not important. This gives a line of where the mount needs to move to. Simply attaching a mount to a M305 with out knowing where it shoots... well, to be blunt, causes all the issues you are having.

Three: Once the iron sights are good enough at 100m, not perfect (usually after 6-16 rounds), I used a laser line to mark the upper receiver and the stock lightly with pencil to match that slight line of the irons.

Four: Lastly, when installing the base mount I aligned it perfectly to this pencil slight line.

All of the mounts I have done but one were A.R.M.S. 18 type mounts, but I did do one C.A.S.M. mount this way that needed stoned to line up. The A.R.M.S. mounts are easier because I was able to align a sewing machine thread across the existing rear sight to front sight and align the mount to that as an extra double check; but I did find the C.A.S.M. mount to be better in the end.

I have put on at least 6 mounts this way, even on two with poor indexing, and every one has come out with zero issues: no need for offset rings or the like. Again, you'd have nothing to lose to try it.
 
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Aniest said:
Here is how I set up the mount on my M305 and about half a dozen ones for friends. Most of this I have learned from looking over the good stuff from Tactical Teacher. It is only four steps and could be something to try, as you would have nothing to lose.

One: First thing I did is looked at how much the barrel was out of index. One friend's was out by a bit, so that one had to be fixed. Most of the rest were slightly off including two that maxed out the front sight windage (one is mine).

Two: The next thing was to actually sight in the iron sights. I know some mounts use the rear sight as a base, but that is not important. This gives a line of where the mount needs to move to. Simply attaching a mount to a M305 with out knowing where it shoots... well, to be blunt, causes all the issues you are having.

Three: Once the iron sights are good enough at 100m, not perfect (usually after 6-16 rounds), I used a laser line to mark the upper receiver and the stock lightly with pencil to match that slight line of the irons.

Four: Lastly, when installing the base mount I aligned it perfectly to this pencil slight line.

All of the mounts I have done but one were A.R.M.S. 18 type mounts, but I did do one C.A.S.M. mount this way that needed stoned to line up. The A.R.M.S. mounts are easier because I was able to align a sewing machine thread across the existing rear sight to front sight and align the mount to that as an extra double check; but I did find the C.A.S.M. mount to be better in the end.

I have put on at least 6 mounts this way, even on two with poor indexing, and every one has come out with zero issues: no need for offset rings or the like. Again, you'd have nothing to lose to try it.
Click to expand...

I have done something similar while trying to "square" a cheapie NCStar mount. Only I used a bit of fishing line from the centre of the rear peep to the top of the front sight blade. The NCS mounts come with washers as shims to centre the mount using the side screw......

Worked good enough using the old mark one eyeball to use standard rings and internal scope windage adjustment.......
 
This is a old post but i figured i would put my solution in here.

I ended up getting burris Z rings with inserts as stated above and used the 20" ring insert to adjust the line of site..

after that it was pretty much bang on. I think i did 4 clicks to the left and 4 clicks up in order to zero it @ 100 yards which is a heck of alot better than it was thats for sure.

The 4 shots i took to make sure i was zero'd were actually all with in about 1" also which surprised me since i picked that load at random and loaded a bunch just for sighting it in not for actual shooting past that purpose.

i still need to shoot all the rounds ive loaded in a ladder but i need to do that when i have time and free range to go back and forth at the range or out at the farm "more likely".
 
"We will bury you..."

Yeah, I just had a similar experience with a new Ruger Mini 14--Could not get it boresighted ( to say nothing of sighted in!). It was shooting 5" low at 25yd and I ran out of elevation before I could get the POA and the POI to coincide. I worked on it for 10 days before I returned it to the merchant.
Their lads did a post mortem and agreed that the rifle was a dud. I got it replaced 'under warranty' with another one just like it. Hopefully this one will
perform better than the last one. My last resort would've been going to the Burris rings c/w eccentric inserts.
I'd expected a "Made in USA!" Ruger to have better quality control than a Chinese, but no, this one's machining was definitly our of whack.
Funny thing is that they included a spent casing in the box as proof the rifle'd been test fired. I wonder what they were aiming at??
Mini 14 #1 had QC right on parr with my Noricos, and IDK if Mini #2 will be any better.
Maybe the American gun industry has been complacent for too long. My last two Chinese guns were a lot better than the ones we were getting years ago.
"We will bury you" was Nikita Krushchev's Soviet prediction the US in the late '50's, but today it could equally be applied to the Chinese
Watch out, America--the Chinese may be catching up!
 
Sporting Lad said:
Hmmm, yeah. One of the problems with scoping an M-14 is that there's no practical way of bore sighting it. I just mounted the scope on rail, crossed my fingers, and put a 3'x4' target at 25 yd. My first round hit ~9" high and right...
Now that I've got my 100yd zero (I ran out of ammo with my final 2 rd 3/4" apart in the 1" bull)--I'm afraid to touch anything. The reticle has used
75% of its windage range to hit my POA. I've got to get back out to the range again.

My Millet rings don't have any 'inserts'.
Click to expand...

Ran in to that problem myself and there is a way...
You can buy a fancy ass Bore mirror thingy that lets you look up the barrel, real handy. You just sit it in the receiver and have a look. I saw one of these at one of Barneys clinics but was never able to track one down.
So.
Being a cheap bast*ard I made one and it cost nothing.
What you need is 1 empty .308 case (match cases are no better than surplus for this )
1 length of dowel or an old pen
Adhesive of your choice
Any old piece of mirror.
Jam your dowel.....or old pen.... into the case.
Cut it to length with a 45 degree cut, just make sure it is short enough to sit on top of the mag.
Nibble off a piece of mirror small enough too fit on top of the mag with out touching ( about half inch square or round )
Glue mirror to end of pen or dowel.
Insert empty mag and lay your new doohickey on top of mag
Roll the doohickey on the mag and be amazed at the results.
Ive made and lost dozens of these things, they are great for bore sighting and very nice for checking the chamber too.

Most importantly they cost nowt and take 2 minutes to make.
I was going to post a pic but Ive lost mine and will have too make another LOL

Keeping it cheap is more fun.
And of course wear all appropriate safety clothing when attempting this project
 
Lost...again said:
Ran in to that problem myself and there is a way...
You can buy a fancy ass Bore mirror thingy that lets you look up the barrel, real handy. You just sit it in the receiver and have a look. I saw one of these at one of Barneys clinics but was never able to track one down.
So.
Being a cheap bast*ard I made one and it cost nothing.
What you need is 1 empty .308 case (match cases are no better than surplus for this )
1 length of dowel or an old pen
Adhesive of your choice
Any old piece of mirror.
Jam your dowel.....or old pen.... into the case.
Cut it to length with a 45 degree cut, just make sure it is short enough to sit on top of the mag.
Nibble off a piece of mirror small enough too fit on top of the mag with out touching ( about half inch square or round )
Glue mirror to end of pen or dowel.
Insert empty mag and lay your new doohickey on top of mag
Roll the doohickey on the mag and be amazed at the results.
Ive made and lost dozens of these things, they are great for bore sighting and very nice for checking the chamber too.

Most importantly they cost nowt and take 2 minutes to make.
I was going to post a pic but Ive lost mine and will have too make another LOL

Keeping it cheap is more fun.
And of course wear all appropriate safety clothing when attempting this project
Click to expand...

That's a good tip!

Way cheaper than the laser chamber insert I usually use!
 
You guys do know that you can get a laser boresighter that simply attaches to the front of the muzzle magnetically? Much better deal than the cartridge-shaped type because it works on any gun, any chambering. Not only can it be used to initially boresight your scope during installation, but if you like to play musical scopes and switch back and forth looking for just the right scope for your rifle, the muzzle-mounted type can be used to reproduce the sight-in of the original scope almost perfectly. By adjusting the new scope windage and elevation turrets until the red dot appears in exactly the same spot in the scope field of view as it did with the previous scope, the results are usually accurate to within 1MOA, often much less.

Just remember to check the muzzle before shooting! :)
 
Hornychief said:
Hey OP, where did you get that stock?
Click to expand...

Treeline-M14

Looks like the price may have went up.
I bought the spring/spring guide replacement and a few other things from there to save on shipping costs at the same time.

When i bought the stock they had them listed as not available but i just emailed them and they still had stocks, they will even look for something fitting the grain pattern you want if you ask nicely , I think they just stopped listing stocks as tiger striped to avoid people crying it wasn't good enough.

was a pretty smooth deal over all they shipped USPS "i asked for that" and it came without any bs brokerage fees etc.
 
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