Range Safety Issue
- Thread starter JEC
- Start date
Thanks for your comments. Sometimes a little "venting" generates positive outcomes... I hope we all benefit and talk to our shooting buddies about how important it is to be... and expect others to be ...responsible at the Range regardless of what we are shooting. I'm sure we have all heard stories about Ranges that were closed because of one bullet going astray.
Do a search for "bump fire SKS" on youtube and see how many kids with SKS rifles show up. The last thing you want to see on your range is a 120 pound weaklings barely able to control their muzzle direction as they show off their "machine gun" to their buddies.
The fault is obviously not with the SKS as most owners are responsible. The problem is that it is such a an affordable rifle with such cheap surplus ammo available. Obviously other rifles are capable of this but it is rare to see people spray $1/round ammo downrange while firing from the hip.
I myself have been touched with the 7.62x39 bug (I own a vz-58L) and would be extremely pissed if the CFO banned that ammo at my local range on account of some kids messing around. The fault is not with any gun or any ammo, it is always a few irresponsible gun owners who ruin things for the rest of us.
Fair enough. But consider this:
3 weeks ago I was firing my old Mauser at my Gun club's range, around Toronto. It is somewhat adjacent to the Handgun range, both surrounded by 40 ft. hills and another one between them. Every time we walked to change targets in our range, we all heard whistling of bolts (obviously, handgun ammunition) flying over our heads and hitting branches on the top of the hill! To do that, the person must have almost fired in the air!
Eventually. the range officer went to investigate and....I left so I didn't hear the end of the story. My point being, SKS, Handgun or $12,000 hand made bolt action, it is the person not the gun.
How is this remotely an issue with a calibre, rifle, country of make, and who cares what else?
It's one guy. What difference does it make if he's using .223, .30-06, or .308 to put those holes in the ground? "Let's warn 7.62x39 shooters", yeah, thanks for doing the completely irrational thing and paint thousands with the brush meant for one. How about just warn everyone to stop doing that.
It's one guy. What difference does it make if he's using .223, .30-06, or .308 to put those holes in the ground? "Let's warn 7.62x39 shooters", yeah, thanks for doing the completely irrational thing and paint thousands with the brush meant for one. How about just warn everyone to stop doing that.
Its obvious that its just a commie rifle problem, due to them being "Evil Baby Eaters"
the other calibres you mentioned are only used by real american heroes, thus are incapable of the problem.
lol
Great point. Almost every range is littered with 7.62X39 casings, so how can you prove it was this particular caliber? It sucks to not know, but assuming does nothing. Camera is the only real solution to stopping this kind of behavior.
At our rifle range there is a direct correlation between the number of steel 7.62x39 cases on the ground and the number of neighbour complaints about rapid fire, holes in target stands, inappropriate targets, divots in the ground and other general mayhem.
limit time
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Cliffs of Dover
FTFY..
milsurp ammo is cheap
jackasses, like most shooters, like cheap ammo
shooting milsurp ammo does not mean you a jackass, nor will it turn you into one
I'm with clay.
For some reason the CZ and SKS guys don't like to behave. Its certainly not ALL of those users, and probably not a majority, but they seem to be the ones.
I remember going to the 80 yd. range at my range in Thunder Bay. There was 100+ empties on the dry grass (PICK UP YOUR EMPTIES IN THE SUMMER ITS A F*%^ING FOREST FIRE HAZARD). There were holes in the stands etc...
For some reason the CZ and SKS guys don't like to behave. Its certainly not ALL of those users, and probably not a majority, but they seem to be the ones.
I remember going to the 80 yd. range at my range in Thunder Bay. There was 100+ empties on the dry grass (PICK UP YOUR EMPTIES IN THE SUMMER ITS A F*%^ING FOREST FIRE HAZARD). There were holes in the stands etc...
- Location
- Manitoba, Canada
holes in the stand! wtf is that suppose to mean, how many .22 casing are ont he grounds.
s**t how many 308 and 223 rounds have i found still loaded and had been missfired.
how dare you go shooting all the blame on 7.62 guys. like we are the only stinking FMJ's on the feild.
now you gone ahead and pissed in my friggen corn flakes!!
Some people are simply irresponsible. There will always be those kind of people. They usually ruin it for the rest of us. I hope ranges don't ban rapid fire. I, myself, like to rattle off 10 rounds rapid fire with my M4 once in a while but I stay on target. !0 rounds 10 holes in the target. I don't agree with bump firing or just firing from the hip as that action has no place at a target range. Shooting at computer monitors, glass bottles or anything that mkes a hazardous mess is crazy. I don't think that any particular rifle or handgun is to blame. It's just the crazy behind the trigger.
Sounds like liberal thinking to me to ban a cartridge to "prevent" accidents...
The shooter is ultimately responsible for their actions, not the device or cartridge. How fair is it to the many members who do follow the rules who use a 7.62 bullet to have their rifles no longer allowed on the range?
Sounds like our ####ty gun legislation to me, it's this kind of thinking that puts a dent in ones quality of life, and freedom.
The shooter is ultimately responsible for their actions, not the device or cartridge. How fair is it to the many members who do follow the rules who use a 7.62 bullet to have their rifles no longer allowed on the range?
Sounds like our ####ty gun legislation to me, it's this kind of thinking that puts a dent in ones quality of life, and freedom.
This is not really a range safety issue. That range sells memberships all over the city, at many locations. Want a membership, lay your money down and walk out with it then go to the range. They have no control to whom they are selling thier memberships to and for the most part, the people running the place have never met the members. At our range, no one gets a membership until they have been given a range famil at the range and then and only then are they given thier membership. We get to meet and instruct every member, then they have no excuses when we find them doing something stupid and kick them off the range and revoke their membership!!
Scott
Scott
*sigh*
When I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8, I got in with a crowd of older kids, who smoked. And I decided that smoking is cool. Being a kid, I went home one day, and told my parents, that I want to start smoking. My dad was outraged. He started screaming at me, "how dare, you? I prohibit you" etc. But my mom told my dad to quiet down, and told me that if I want to start smoking, I am welcome to try. Smoking is not pleasant, but it's my choice. And if I to smoke a cig, and like it, she'll let me.
So she found somewhere a pack of nastiest Soviet cigarettes ("Belomorkanal" or "Prima", no-longer sure), lit one up, and let me try. And I took a drag. And nearly puked my guts out. Coughed, tears from the eyes, the full effect. At which point she asked me if I still want to continue.
I've not smoked since. At all.
What I am trying to say is that I don't think that prohibition would solve anything.
If you ban a certain ammo at a range, folks will find a different range, or go to crown land where they will behave recklessly. And if someone reckless goes to crown land, bump fires an SKS, and accidentally wounds someone (or himself)?
So maybe the solution is education instead of prohibition.
If your range has some sort of orientation course (Of the three ranges that I use around here, two ranges have it, one doesn't), maybe it's worth covering what happens if you hit the ground. Let them fire two or three rounds in controlled situation. Remind that ricochets are dangerous, potentially not only to bystanders, but to shooter too.
Remind folks about range clean-up. Logic is simple - someone steps on a casing and either slips or injures his foot, and range will have insurance issues. Insurance issues == more expensive range membership. I do assume that members of your range are rational, and act in self-interest, of course.
As for bumpfiring.... Never did it, so I don't know the legal aspect of it. So please forgive me if I am wrong.
I know that if I don't clean the bolt/bolt carrier in my SKS, I can end up with slamfire. And slamfire indicates that I have a full auto weapon. Since I am not licensed for FA (and SKS is center-fire), CFO (or deputies) can confiscate my gun and fine me/get police involved. Is that the same with bumpfire? Because if yes, then re-iterate this during your range orientation course.
It's just a suggestion. Outright prohibiting things will make people crave them even more, while in reality there is nothing there to crave.
Just my 50 kopeiks (about 2 Canadian Cents). Sorry if I offended anyone.
When I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8, I got in with a crowd of older kids, who smoked. And I decided that smoking is cool. Being a kid, I went home one day, and told my parents, that I want to start smoking. My dad was outraged. He started screaming at me, "how dare, you? I prohibit you" etc. But my mom told my dad to quiet down, and told me that if I want to start smoking, I am welcome to try. Smoking is not pleasant, but it's my choice. And if I to smoke a cig, and like it, she'll let me.
So she found somewhere a pack of nastiest Soviet cigarettes ("Belomorkanal" or "Prima", no-longer sure), lit one up, and let me try. And I took a drag. And nearly puked my guts out. Coughed, tears from the eyes, the full effect. At which point she asked me if I still want to continue.
I've not smoked since. At all.
What I am trying to say is that I don't think that prohibition would solve anything.
If you ban a certain ammo at a range, folks will find a different range, or go to crown land where they will behave recklessly. And if someone reckless goes to crown land, bump fires an SKS, and accidentally wounds someone (or himself)?
So maybe the solution is education instead of prohibition.
If your range has some sort of orientation course (Of the three ranges that I use around here, two ranges have it, one doesn't), maybe it's worth covering what happens if you hit the ground. Let them fire two or three rounds in controlled situation. Remind that ricochets are dangerous, potentially not only to bystanders, but to shooter too.
Remind folks about range clean-up. Logic is simple - someone steps on a casing and either slips or injures his foot, and range will have insurance issues. Insurance issues == more expensive range membership. I do assume that members of your range are rational, and act in self-interest, of course.
As for bumpfiring.... Never did it, so I don't know the legal aspect of it. So please forgive me if I am wrong.
I know that if I don't clean the bolt/bolt carrier in my SKS, I can end up with slamfire. And slamfire indicates that I have a full auto weapon. Since I am not licensed for FA (and SKS is center-fire), CFO (or deputies) can confiscate my gun and fine me/get police involved. Is that the same with bumpfire? Because if yes, then re-iterate this during your range orientation course.
It's just a suggestion. Outright prohibiting things will make people crave them even more, while in reality there is nothing there to crave.
Just my 50 kopeiks (about 2 Canadian Cents). Sorry if I offended anyone.
