Rank the AR Manufacturer

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There is always a lot of discussion regarding AR brands, so I'm curious as to everyone's opinion regarding AR quality and if they would categorize them as Tier 1, 2 or 3. I know it's controversial, subjective and somewhat useless, but I thought it would be interesting to see the various responses and if there is a general pattern. If you've got a moment, put these under the headings of Tier 1, 2 or 3 (whatever that means to you) and then in order, based upon your opinion of over-all quality. If you have a few words to explain why, it would be appreciated (i.e. barrel warranty for life or free floated barrel). I know there are many different models and configurations, but this is an excercise in ranking general quality / function.

LMT
Bushmaster
DPMS
Bravo Company
Noveske
Norinco
Daniel Defense
NEA
Armalite
SIG
H&K
Wilson Combat
PWS
Yankee Hill Machine
Rock River Arms
Colt
LWRCI
Knight Armament
CORE
ATRS
Stag Arms
Remington
Del-Ton
Smith & Wesson
Ruger
STI
Olympic Arms

Insert other where appropriate on the list.
 
You forgot FN, although I have never met anybody that has one.

From what I have seen theres mainly 3 grades. Grade 1 is what considered good enough for the military or gov agencies to use and has most standard configurations and features. Grade 2 is similar to grade 1 but has things such as commercial buffer, california guns, anodized issues or other slight variances that some would say makes the gun less reliable or less desirable. Grade 3 would be the low tier guns, some have function issues, fit and finish can be poor, sold with some novelty crap hanging off them in odd metals on occasion.

You can get charts that lump certain brands in certain places. However consider that occasionally you can get a grade 1 gun that is a pos lemon that needs to be thrown down a well!

Years ago, one of the old mods on this forum who is an industry guy, when I asked him what I should get...he said LMT. I have a few of them now and have always been pleased with them. Years ago LMT was like a boutique gun especially in the US and not commonly seen for sale to the public. Now its common.

Ive had a few other brands as well.

Decide what you want to pay, make a short list and go from there.
 
So far I'm rockin Daniel Defense, LMT, and BCM parts mainly in my AR. I chose those due to the fact that they were top tier companies. I know there are more T1 companies but that's what I went with.
 
Some good comparison info in these............

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html
 
Tier 1:

Bravo Company
Noveske
Daniel Defense
H&K
Colt
Knight Armament
Maybe LMT...they are commonly thought of as Tier 1 guns but if you ask, say, Vickers, he will tell you they see more problems with LMTs than anything else on this list (although, no offense koolaid drinkers, Hackathorn had some fairly sharp criticisms of KAC as well)

Tier 2:

Stag Arms
NEA
Armalite?
Rock River Arms
Smith & Wesson
CMMG
Bushmaster?

Tier 3

DPMS
Norinco
Olympic Arms


Guns of which I have no particular in-depth knowledge, but which I can tell you are not tier 1 guns:

Yankee Hill Machine
CORE
Remington
Del-Ton
Ruger
STI
SIG
ATRS



Guns about which I know so little they could be anything from Tier 1 to Tier 50, I have no idea:

Wilson Combat
PWS
LWRCI

Frankly I find it hard to separate Tier 2 and Tier 3...some bushmasters run pretty well and some seem not to run well at all. There are some Tier Z guns that are obviously garbage, but a lot of the 2/3 companies make a range of guns and that is part of the problem...how do you know if you're buying a really good Stag, or one of their mediocre builds? On average Stag seem to be more consistent than most and personally I would tend to equate Stag and LMT, although that is not a popular opinion most places these days. In some ways, the easiest thing might be to say, "here is the short list of Tier 1 guys. Here is the short list of Tier not with someone else's #### guys. Everything in between is a bit of a gamble and occupy a complicated spectrum with a range of capabilities and prices."
 
The following is strictly based off of my personal experiences with the products and to that end, focused on quality and craftsmanship as opposed to customer service and warranties.

Tier 1

Daniel Defense - Probably one of the best stock ARs on the market. All of DD products have been very high quality. I've used a number of their uppers and barrels to build great rifles.

Noveske - I've had a few complete rifles and I've used a ton of their parts for custom builds. Great company and excellent product.

H&K - I've only had one real 10.4" 416 upper. The quality and attention to detail was excellent. I don't know about the civilian rifles.

Bravo Company - I've only seen one of these rifles and to be fair it was just an upper receiver group, but from that alone, I rank them in the top.

Colt - Owned 5 Colt 6920 LE Carbines. All Good to go. Although I did have a few that used non-standard trigger group pins.

LMT - Owned many LMT rifles. Never had a problem


Tier 2

Stag Arms - Great rifles and in my experience are in the grey area between 1 and 2. I would trust a Stag in the real world.

The rest of these are I would lump all together. They will all work and the build quality and attention to detail is sufficient. These manufacturers are the ones that pick and choose which specifications to follow.

Armalite
Rock River Arms
Yankee Hill Machine
Remington
Bushmaster
DPMS

Tier 3

The last two are in the bottom of the barrel because they have the greatest variance in quality. I have decent rifles come from both of them, but on the wholes there is a lot of garbage too.

Norinco
Olympic Arms


Knights Armaments - I have taken KAC out of the mix because of my experience with one of their complete upper assemblies. I used to hold them in high regard based on their parts and rail systems but the one upper has tainted all of that. It seems unfair to lump them in with DPMS and Bushmaster in the tier 2 category but based on my experience, I'm not comfortable throwing them in the top tier either. Until I see (with my own eyes) a KAC rifle that runs without a flaw, they will stay here in Limbo.

All of the rest I have not personally used so I can not attest to the quality....BUT if I had to arbitrarily rank them here it is:


PWS
Wilson Combat
LWRCI
STI
Ruger
Smith & Wesson
SIG
Del-Ton
ATRS
NEA
CORE
 
Stag Arms G1/1RLE with the 4150 barrel give up nothing in material/specification/quality to the Colt 6920.

Every rifle/carbine we sell we sell as a professional working firearm, whether you are the Canadian Forces, Police Dept, Competitive Shooter or a Recreational shooter, new shooter, we don't sell toys. Due to customer demand for the 4150 CMV 1/7 barrel, we offer them, and at a normal price point. The 1/9 barrels are accurate and shoot forever as well. We don't take customers to the cleaners based on their misinformation. We offer value by buying from one of the oldest and largest AR15 manufacturers in the USA.

Each rifle/carbine we sell includes a lifetime warranty. That (statistically) no one ever uses it speaks volumes, and is probably the biggest reason we and other dealers like to sell Stag Arms. They work. They are a known quantity. They made all the parts in the rifle in house, in the USA, and they stand behind them.
The only thing we usually hear back from customers is from their friends calling to order, or dealers ordering more guns.

Readers of M4C who think the website owner/key advertiser is not biased against Stag Arms based for reasons having nothing to do with the actual firearm, or quality, or think they receive relevant or honest info on that site regarding Stag Arms, would be mistaken/misinformed.
 
Last edited:
misanthropist said:
Tier 1:

Bravo Company
Noveske
Daniel Defense
H&K
Colt
Knight Armament
Maybe LMT...they are commonly thought of as Tier 1 guns but if you ask, say, Vickers, he will tell you they see more problems with LMTs than anything else on this list (although, no offense koolaid drinkers, Hackathorn had some fairly sharp criticisms of KAC as well)

Tier 2:

Stag Arms
NEA
Armalite?
Rock River Arms
Smith & Wesson
CMMG
Bushmaster?

Tier 3

DPMS
Norinco
Olympic Arms


Guns of which I have no particular in-depth knowledge, but which I can tell you are not tier 1 guns:

Yankee Hill Machine
CORE
Remington
Del-Ton
Ruger
STI
SIG
ATRS



Guns about which I know so little they could be anything from Tier 1 to Tier 50, I have no idea:

Wilson Combat
PWS
LWRCI

Frankly I find it hard to separate Tier 2 and Tier 3...some bushmasters run pretty well and some seem not to run well at all. There are some Tier Z guns that are obviously garbage, but a lot of the 2/3 companies make a range of guns and that is part of the problem...how do you know if you're buying a really good Stag, or one of their mediocre builds? On average Stag seem to be more consistent than most and personally I would tend to equate Stag and LMT, although that is not a popular opinion most places these days. In some ways, the easiest thing might be to say, "here is the short list of Tier 1 guys. Here is the short list of Tier not with someone else's #### guys. Everything in between is a bit of a gamble and occupy a complicated spectrum with a range of capabilities and prices."
Click to expand...

Alot of this is generational, and the guns we get in Canada are not the same as in the US ~ at least according to the importers (eg.Stag-Arms East/Armalite-Wolverine) meet "MilSpec", which the parent guns often haven't according to US forums.

Consistancy is key~ I read a posting on another forum by Paul B (B of BCM) who said that his guns are not quite as nice as Colt, but they (BCM) have created a standard which they are using (Based on being as close to the Colt TDP as they can~without actually having it).

Noveske is a company which builds the best available AR utilizing a non-propriatary parts system, but propriatary barrels and chambers.

KAC builds an improved AR utilizing parts and processes which Colt has not been allowed to by the US Gov in the interests of backwards compatability.

KAC, ArmaLite and LMT use bolts with manufacturing changes to increase life span, none of which Colt have been allowed to use. The ArmaLite and LMT bolts are still compatible with a "milspec" barrel extention, the KAC bolts require a propriatary barrel extention.

I read PatR. write [on another forum](@4 years ago) that Colt and LMT chambers were the only ones which he had never seen cut material with the "Christensen" reamer that was all the rage 4-5 years ago. The consensious of comment (at that time) was that only LMT and Colt had consistantly 5.56NATO milspec chambers.
 
There is another variable that should be looked at as well which is how many of these AR's can be chambered in 5.56 (nato) vs. the cheaper and less powerful .223, some are available in the Wylde configuration meaning they are good for both.
 
What about Vltor?.. I don't see any reference to their MUR uppers and what not.

Having NO experience with most of these brands, I'm curious what the thoughts are on them.
 
dangertree said:
Stag Arms G1/1RLE with the 4150 barrel give up nothing in material/specification/quality to the Colt 6920.

Every rifle/carbine we sell we sell as a professional working firearm, whether you are the Canadian Forces, Police Dept, Competitive Shooter or a Recreational shooter, new shooter, we don't sell toys. Due to customer demand for the 4150 CMV 1/7 barrel, we offer them, and at a normal price point. The 1/9 barrels are accurate and shoot forever as well. We don't take customers to the cleaners based on their misinformation. We offer value by buying from one of the oldest and largest AR15 manufacturers in the USA.

Each rifle/carbine we sell includes a lifetime warranty. That (statistically) no one ever uses it speaks volumes, and is probably the biggest reason we and other dealers like to sell Stag Arms. They work. They are a known quantity. They made all the parts in the rifle in house, in the USA, and they stand behind them.
The only thing we usually hear back from customers is from their friends calling to order, or dealers ordering more guns.

Readers of M4C who think the website owner/key advertiser is not biased against Stag Arms based for reasons having nothing to do with the actual firearm, or quality, or think they receive relevant or honest info on that site regarding Stag Arms, would be mistaken/misinformed.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I was referring to in reference to Stag.

Stag build LE guns which are probably Tier 1 machines. But they also build Tier 2 guns. How to rank them as a manufacturer? Hard to say...Tier 1.5?

The quality Stags seem to be really good guns. But not everything Stag builds is Colt-grade. That is why I would not call them a Tier 1 manufacturer. I think Stag can be counted on every bit as much as LMT, I will put it that way. If you are someone who thinks LMT is a Tier 1 builder, then it's probably fair to include Stag on Tier 1...although that is not popular to do these days for, I suspect, exactly the reasons you outline.
 
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