RANT about guides in Canada and TV

[sjemac]

you sound like an outfitter ? ?? Sorry but to FORCE me to buy services for a ridiculous and exhorbitant fee is my only complaint , *I* don't want nor need an outfitter ! What is wrong with that ? I nor anyone else should be forced to hire one and be told how to spend our $ , the gov't does not have that right, those are my complaints and i don't care how reputable the outfitter is , now if you are a NONRESIDENT ALIEN, then i wholeheartedly concur , make them have an outfitter ! unless they have relatives here in canada. Another problem actually is this : Being forced to have an outfitter negates the plan i had when i was in Sak to have my dad come down and hunt with me, can't do it , unless he hires an outfitter, and then of course i have to as well. Is that fair ? it's all gov't and outfitter $ driven. I have no prob with outfitters , so long as they are fair in their pricing, i get guided, not babysat, I decide what I want, I'd even sign a contract stating that if I shot a less than perfect animal or a female of that species , that it was MY CHOICE and agree to not hold the outfitter liable etc... or whatever they want. Outfitters have their place , FOR THOSE THATR WANT THEM ! not to be forced to hire one just because i no longer live in the area. do that and i have no prob with them at all, soak the non canadians for all you can get for all i care.

I understand greywolf, My dad will be coming out in Sept and it will cost well over $100 just so he can miss ducks all day one Saturday morning.

BUT

I do believe that provinces should have the absolute right to manage their game and distriburte licenses any way they see fit.

That said, I DO believe that all provinces should enact RECIPROCITY legislation. If I need an outfitter to hunt for deer in NB then NB'rs need an outfitter to hunt deer here. If I can hunt without a guide in BC then BC'rs should be able to hunt in AB without a guide.

 

[Gatehouse]

I agree with Sjemac. I don't mind paying more, but come on! When Bone-collector puts the prices up side x side, it looks ridiculous. Tags are 10X the cost.

Somewhere there is an extra charge / license for game birds, I do not see that there. It is $60 or so.

If you want to hunt BC for resident tag cost, become a BC resident....

I see no reason why a person from Province "X" should be entitled to hunt in Province "Y" for resident prices. Non residents don't contribute to the province, so why should they be given the same privileges?

 

[H4831]

Right on, Gatehouse!

 

[dumbdawg]

on some of my best hunts i never fired a shot.as far as paying nonresidents fees yours seem reasonably check out ontarios

 

[bone-collector]

If you want to hunt BC for resident tag cost, become a BC resident....

I see no reason why a person from Province "X" should be entitled to hunt in Province "Y" for resident prices. Non residents don't contribute to the province, so why should they be given the same privileges?

good point Clarke and your statment leaves no room for argument IMHO, but the thread was not about what it costs to hunt in BC, I could care less if tim and john pay 25K each to hunt moose or bear what I care about is that we as a whole province/country are not refered to as incompitant after that hunt.

 

[greywolf]

not my complaint , the complaint is the non res tag is way out of line, to be treated as a foreigner is absurd , i am canadian , if i choose to hunt bc (a province i lived in for years and btw paid more taxes in than any other province)
sure i don't deserve a same as resident price , but i sure don't deserve almost if not same rate as non res alien , and i shoulfd not be forced to have an outfitter, i should be able to go it alone or with a buddy or 2. That is my complaint. I believe the gov't does not have the right to tell me how to spend my $ . make me pay for the license , but that's it ! they have no right to tell me i need an outfitter and guide, it restricts my right of movement, and violates at least 2 areas of the c of r (so I am told , not aware of the second reason but freedom of movement is 1) the gov't does not belong in bed with industry , and outfitting is industry, and trust me the incompetant outfitters outnumber the good ones , as i said they have their place , but not being forced on us... if I CHOOSE an outfitter , great , if I don't that should still be ok

 

[bone-collector]

again its not about you and what you want its about the services applied here, I didnt rant about the governments involvment in guide outfitting nor did I rant about another canadians rights, I ranted about how we are represented, thats it!

 

[greywolf]

You are right , I only made the first comment originally , not intending the topic to get so off track , sorry about that, was not my intention , but it got sooooo off track that everyone forgot what it was really about. Again , sorry , was not my intent. But it is in a way related , because you wouldn't believe how in other provinces how it looks on BC and aB, I have heard many complaints about "money grab" and so on And folks not going to bc or ab for vacations because of it , simply put a lot of folks can't afford the $ for the good outfitters. and that sheds a bad light on bc/ab as well , that was the only point i really wanted to make nad it got out of hand

 

[greywolf]

more on topic , i watched the show again (i record all of the hunting shows)
You are right , that is a way small bear, not worth a second look if i were in the bush and came across it . BTW (not trying to stir things up ) just a point , yes my fault for getting off topic started, but you also encouraged it, with subsequent posts, so we're all equally guilty. But that bear is way to tiny !

 

[bone-collector]

well then lets debate it, how well would Manitoba fair if they opened up the province to every other canadian at resident costs and abilities? if every hunter in Canada flocked to manitoba in 1 year and shot deer/moose/bear how many would be left for the locals residents of manitoba? can Manitobas natural resourse sustain an attack like that of 5000-6000 hunters in 1 season?

were would the conservation be in that, we would be no better than a outfitter who tags out every year just for money and didnt give a crap about what will it be like next year.

lets say BC has a estimated population of 16000 grizzly bears, if 10000 hunters from across canada flocked here each year to hunt them and an average of 4000 hunters got bears, how many of them would be sows and cubs? how long would it take before we didnt have a sustainable population of bears? 3 years? maybe 4?

what your asking for is open range on any province and its wildlife with little or no regards to the outcome of the request!

 

[greywolf]

Again , i never said that I agree with same costs as resident , I SAID I DON"T MIND PAYING MORE< JUST NOT AS MUCH AS ALIEN ! And 1030$ for a grizz license is a bit of "gouging" , i'd have no prob with it if it was 1/2 that, still steep for some folks , but a bit more in range, also , you can do what sask does for mulies, simply put residents have first crack , outfitters get a few , and non residents get what's left over, also there are resident and non resident hunting areas , MB has that as well, also exclusive areas for outfitters , which is another solution , outfitters can have the "choisest areas, and so can the residents , and leave a few decent areas for those who don't want outfitters , and limit the # of licenses for those areas , same effect , better solution , and don't tell me it can't be done when it has in some states and in sask . It's a far better solution than to force someone to spend exhorbitant amounts of $ , or even cap the outfitters to a reasonable price. whatever works , just don't force how folks spend their $
there are far more equitable ways to solve this and still keep within conservation guidelines etc.... than to gouge people, and give everyone a chance regardless of financial status, right now only rich people can afford to hunt in BC or AB unless they have friends or family to act as hosts. That is called discrimination , also i think Canadians have far more RIGHT to hunt BC or Ab than foriegners

 

[bone-collector]

1030 dollars is rediculous to you but yet I have spent 6 years waiting to get a draw for a grizz in an area I want to hunt, so its not fair you pay 1030 and hunt that bear right now and I as a resident dont have that option unless I to pay a guide?
so your now saying you should have better odds and more rights than a resident?

also what would it cost to change the entire system to allow this new hunting system you are proposing?who would pay for it? if we lowered tags and licence fees how would it be paid for? more co's more fisheries officers more fisharies etc, not to mention the loss in tags to residents that live here so non residents may hunt here freely as well, as for costs to hunt grizzly bears it dosnt realy matter you cant get a hunter host to take you on a grizzly hunt anyhow, that would be a guide outfitter service only hunt for any non resident as in most moose hunting/goat/sheep in BC.

and were is your discrimination here? if you at one time lived in BC did you not know people or have friends? are you not a member of 1 of the largest firearms/hunting sites online?

I dont think for 1 minute 1 british columbian should suffer 1% to allow others to hunt our province and that is what your asking to be done, conservation of our wildlife has given X number of tags in each area to guides and residents, now who would lose those numbers if we had to create a special season for non residents?

and there is NO draws for mule deer in sask for non residents other than RCMP stationed there from there 2008 hunting regs

 

[Gatehouse]

not my complaint , the complaint is the non res tag is way out of line, to be treated as a foreigner is absurd , i am canadian , if i choose to hunt bc (a province i lived in for years and btw paid more taxes in than any other province)
sure i don't deserve a same as resident price , but i sure don't deserve almost if not same rate as non res alien , and i shoulfd not be forced to have an outfitter, i should be able to go it alone or with a buddy or 2. That is my complaint. I believe the gov't does not have the right to tell me how to spend my $ . make me pay for the license , but that's it ! they have no right to tell me i need an outfitter and guide, it restricts my right of movement, and violates at least 2 areas of the c of r (so I am told , not aware of the second reason but freedom of movement is 1) the gov't does not belong in bed with industry , and outfitting is industry, and trust me the incompetant outfitters outnumber the good ones , as i said they have their place , but not being forced on us... if I CHOOSE an outfitter , great , if I don't that should still be ok

The BC Miistry of Enviroment sure does have the right to tell people what sort of access they have to the wildlife of BC.

They also can tell you how much it will cost to hunt the publiclyy owned wildlife, and if part of that cost is contributing to the local economy via hiring an outfitter, then that's what the cost is.

 

[Gatehouse]

Again , i never said that I agree with same costs as resident , I SAID I DON"T MIND PAYING MORE< JUST NOT AS MUCH AS ALIEN ! And 1030$ for a grizz license is a bit of "gouging" , i'd have no prob with it if it was 1/2 that, still steep for some folks , but a bit more in range, also , you can do what sask does for mulies, simply put residents have first crack , outfitters get a few , and non residents get what's left over, also there are resident and non resident hunting areas , MB has that as well, also exclusive areas for outfitters , which is another solution , outfitters can have the "choisest areas, and so can the residents , and leave a few decent areas for those who don't want outfitters , and limit the # of licenses for those areas , same effect , better solution , and don't tell me it can't be done when it has in some states and in sask . It's a far better solution than to force someone to spend exhorbitant amounts of $ , or even cap the outfitters to a reasonable price. whatever works , just don't force how folks spend their $
there are far more equitable ways to solve this and still keep within conservation guidelines etc.... than to gouge people, and give everyone a chance regardless of financial status, right now only rich people can afford to hunt in BC or AB unless they have friends or family to act as hosts. That is called discrimination , also i think Canadians have far more RIGHT to hunt BC or Ab than foriegners

How does your plan benefit the ownrers of the land and wildlife, the people of BC?

 

[greywolf]

you keep putting words in my mouth , where did i ever talk about a draw ? And in Sask , residents and outfitters get first priority, anything left after x time goes on a first come first serve basis to any non res canadian that wants them , check you regs I have them in front of me atm. You obviously being a guide or outfitter are never going to see the point , because that would threaten your livelihood , I hear the complaints come across my desk every day , I see every day the "REPUTATION "of , particularly BC and AB go down the toilet, because of ridiculous fees, and forcing "hunting tourists" in what way they can spend their money. So please don't tell me how it should be, been there done that , and if you read my post carefully , the amendments required would not cost squat, compared to the $ it would bring in . and no where in any post did I say Give FREE range to outsiders anywhere in bc , I SAID "SELECT AREAS" . And yes I have plenty of friends in BC to hunting with. Btw in mb , we limit tags on things like elk. all done at draw for elk and i few others, outfitters get their guaranteed tags, res get their tags, and so do non res and aliens , so if there are guaranteed tags for everyone, then why should they have to have a guide ? if they get drawn they have the right to hunt in mb , however they choose , once they pay for the license, no special privileges , just the choice of where to spend the $. And we are going to push for this here in MB pretty soon.

 

[Gatehouse]

you keep putting words in my mouth , where did i ever talk about a draw ? And in Sask , residents and outfitters get first priority, anything left after x time goes on a first come first serve basis to any non res canadian that wants them , check you regs I have them in front of me atm. See I have access to everything , I work as a net admin for conservation , have worked there since i got out of the military, that puts me in a very nice position also to get the poop on future considerations in laws and proposed laws for all provinces since we share info. You obviously being a guide or outfitter are never going to see the point , because that would threaten your livelihood , I hear the complaints come across my desk every day , I have to enter it into the system , or if emailed have to see to it that it gets to where it supposed to go. I see every day the "REPUTATION "of , particularly BC and AB go down the toilet, because of ridiculous fees, and forcing "hunting tourists" in what way they can spend their money. So please don't tell me how it should be, been there done that , and if you read my post carefully , the amendments required would not cost squat, compared to the $ it would bring in . and no where in any post did I say Give FREE range to outsiders anywhere in bc , I SAID "SELECT AREAS" . And yes I have plenty of friends in BC to hunting with, and btw 6yrs ? poor you , wanna go next year for sure ? i go EVERY YEAR for grizz or sheep. I have a friend that thinks like i do , a very respected outfitter at that , he agrees with me so , let me know if you wana go I will make the arrangement , 6 yrs is a long time to wait. btw in mb , we limit tags on things like elk. all done at draw for elk and i few others, outfitters get their guaranteed tags, res get their tags, and so do non res and aliens , so if there are guaranteed tags for everyone, then why should they have to have a guide ? if they get drawn they have the right to hunt in mb , however they choose , once they pay for the license, no special privileges , just the choice of where to spend the $. And we are going to push for this here in MB pretty soon.

There aren't enough grizzly tags for residents of BC, outiftters can sell them for a premium price, so how does it benefit the BC resident to allow non residents to enter the draw for a tag, and then hunt grizzlies for a lower tag cost?

I suppose you are using the outfitters allocated tags for grizzly and sheep, as the non resident Canadian "hosted" permits don't include those species in BC.

 

[bone-collector]

I work as a net admin for conservation , have worked there since i got out of the military, that puts me in a very nice position also to get the poop on future considerations in laws and proposed laws for all provinces since we share info.

I suppose you are using the outfitters allocated tags for grizzly and sheep, as the non resident Canadian "hosted" permits don't include those species in BC.

dont be silly Clarke he obviously knows all this way before we do

 

[Demonical]

I do not think that residents of Canada have a right to slide into another province and be able to buy hunting licenses in that province for the same as the full-time residents.

If you want to hunt grizzlies in B.C. then damn well move to B.C. and pay taxes there!

I totally agree with bone-collector on this.

 

[huntinstuff]

I do not think that residents of Canada have a right to slide into another province and be able to buy hunting licenses in that province for the same as the full-time residents.

If you want to hunt grizzlies in B.C. then damn well move to B.C. and pay taxes there!

I totally agree with bone-collector on this.

x3...........But then again, Im from Alberta and I guide so I have absolutely nothing to complain about. I probably shouldnt even post on this thread, but Im with bone and Demo on this.

 

[bone-collector]

Randy you know I to have been a guide for several years, its erelavent unless you let your hunters shoot 4 foot bears

I would like to know were buddy found the info that non residents get mulie tags in sask, searched there 2008 hunting regs and papers and it all says RESIDENT ONLY ?

I beleive the hunter host type programs are plenty and a great idea, have been on a couple now and had a great SAFE time