rare snipers at collectors source

superbee

superbee

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http://www.collectorssource.com/lee-enfield-l42a1.html

http://www.collectorssource.com/australian-no-1-mark-3-h-t-sniper-rifle.html
 
I just noticed those about a half hour ago. Prices seem reasonable enough when one considers what similar rifles sold for at the two American auctions a couple weeks back.

The prices of this stuff is starting to remind me of 2008 all over again, when discretionary spending on collectables had prices that were through the roof.
 
Photo of L42A1 in case at Collectors Source arranged to downplay what is missing from equipment schedule!

L42A1%20%20CES_zpscmtebq8x.jpg
 
stencollector said:
I just noticed those about a half hour ago. Prices seem reasonable enough when one considers what similar rifles sold for at the two American auctions a couple weeks back.

The prices of this stuff is starting to remind me of 2008 all over again, when discretionary spending on collectables had prices that were through the roof.
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Well they are, but they aren't, as with most Auctions prices vary, L42s at the one Auction varied from a low of @3500$ to a high of about the collectors source level - of course that was for a long branch L42.

In my view the true measure of an auction is what the second (or third) identical item sells for.

And as pointed out, the transit box isn't complete here.
 
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Interesting to see how long the L42 is on Collectors web site. I picked up an L42 from Manton Arms in the UK in 1991 for $700 Canadian. All matching and correct but missing some of the little accessories. Sold it in 2006 for a hefty profit. Grew tired of it and wanted something else. It was not all that accurate of a rifle, 2-3 moa with match ammo. Rifle was in great shape and I question all the accuracy claims with this rifle. Performed poorly in the Falklands. Collectible yes, but the money has been made on these long ago.
 
Robbs, I have to agree with you! As a long-time owner and shooter of the L42 and the other No.4 conversions, I believe that I am qualified to pass an opinion. Grossly overpriced! Popularity is largely due to the current "Sniper Rifle craze" which like all fads will likely pass leaving recent owners with over-valued mediocrities with inferior optics.

Interesting rifles from an historic point-of-view which certainly have some collector's value, but as shooters not a patch on their close relative, the Pecar-scoped and more reasonably priced Enfield Enforcer.
 
You also have to take into account that these rifles weren't meant to put 5 bullets within the same hole, they were meant as a snipers weapon.

By snipers weapon, I mean the classic meaning of sniper, or what we now call a marksmens rifle. Historically the shooting 2k snipers didn't exist, that is a recent phenomena. The average sniper historically was at max about 600m or less (there have been cases of farther shots, but from a realistic standpoint most were 600m or less). 2 or 3 MOA is perfectly acceptable for that role as that still ends up with the person your pointing at dead.
 
terrylee said:
Robbs, I have to agree with you! As a long-time owner and shooter of the L42 and the other No.4 conversions, I believe that I am qualified to pass an opinion. Grossly overpriced! Popularity is largely due to the current "Sniper Rifle craze" which like all fads will likely pass leaving recent owners with over-valued mediocrities with inferior optics.

Interesting rifles from an historic point-of-view which certainly have some collector's value, but as shooters not a patch on their close relative, the Pecar-scoped and more reasonably priced Enfield Enforcer.
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You may be right about the sniper craze, and the price may well be towards the upper scale for a British L42, but as to the fad passing, I have been only been in the sniper collecting game for about 20 years, and the prices have only gone one way...up. There were only 2 blips on that climb that I saw.....the crash of 2008 when discretionary spending stopped, and around 2012 when the replica scopes hit the market and quelled some of the lesser collectors thirst for optics and accessories. But overall the trend continues to climb.

My observations: early 90s: no4T = $300-$500
Mid 90s: they were at every 5th table at the gun show for $800
Late 90s: $900-1300 depending on if matched or not.
First decade of the new century: went from the $1200 and climbed up to the $4K mark
Second decade: went from the 3K mark and climbed to the $4500-8K range.

And with any of those prices, add 50% to 75% more if it was special like a LongBranch or a L42.

I remember around 2000, Wolverine dragged a L42a1 from show to show at $1700.....seemed like he couldn't give that thing away.

The Enforcers might be a better Enfield for target shooting, but exactly as you mention, they lack the military history.

Personally, I stick to Canadian used rifles, so outside of trials, the L42 was not in Cdn service. Just a personal choice I make....without parameters, one could be habitually broke.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
You also have to take into account that these rifles weren't meant to put 5 bullets within the same hole, they were meant as a snipers weapon.

By snipers weapon, I mean the classic meaning of sniper, or what we now call a marksmens rifle. Historically the shooting 2k snipers didn't exist, that is a recent phenomena. The average sniper historically was at max about 600m or less (there have been cases of farther shots, but from a realistic standpoint most were 600m or less). 2 or 3 MOA is perfectly acceptable for that role as that still ends up with the person your pointing at dead.
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Eaglelord: I'm not sure about your "classic meaning of sniper rifle = marksman's rifle". Surely putting a round through a loophole in a metal plate at 100 or 300 yards was a job for a "sniper rifle" in the purest sense of the word. My only WW1 sniper rifle (No. 3 with PP scope) is without doubt a MOA rifle (even my roughest P14 can do that with a PH sight) as are both my No. 4 T's. But these are all very old guns now and may require a lot of tweaking to achieve that sort of precision or may simply be too worn to achieve it. It surprises me to hear that L42's are not necessarily very accurate- maybe someone with differing experiences will chime in? As to current prices, I had hoped the current economic problems would soften prices a bit but doesn't appear to be the case (I'm a collector not someone trying to profit from the hobby).

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Eaglelord: I'm not sure about your "classic meaning of sniper rifle = marksman's rifle". Surely putting a round through a loophole in a metal plate at 100 or 300 yards was a job for a "sniper rifle" in the purest sense of the word. My only WW1 sniper rifle (No. 3 with PP scope) is without doubt a MOA rifle (even my roughest P14 can do that with a PH sight) as are both my No. 4 T's. But these are all very old guns now and may require a lot of tweaking to achieve that sort of precision or may simply be too worn to achieve it. It surprises me to hear that L42's are not necessarily very accurate- maybe someone with differing experiences will chime in? As to current prices, I had hoped the current economic problems would soften prices a bit but doesn't appear to be the case (I'm a collector not someone trying to profit from the hobby).

milsurpo
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My point being is a what we now consider to be a marksmen's role (i.e. more accurate fire up to about 600-800m) is what was a sniper. Not saying it disparagingly, only that understanding the context behind how things were used makes a difference. For many people who don't have a basic knowledge on the subject they assume that a sniper in WWI or WWII had the same role as a modern sniper (i.e. over 1k away kill shots etc.). They also assume that the rifles are exceptionally accurate like modern sniper rifles. Not saying they can't be accurate, just that for example with a No. 4T the minimum standard for accuracy was 3 MOA (not saying they can't do better, only that was the minimum accepted standard in service). This is compared to some of the more modern systems which can actually be .25 MOA firearms.

3 MOA still gets the job done expecially within the 600-800m ranges they were used at, it is just being realistic on the capabilities of the rifles which many people aren't.
 
While a No4 T scope is cammed to 1000yards, and most German scopes 600-800m.

The combination of available ammunition, optics, rifle and field condition lead most engagements to a maximum of 400-500 yards...according to the memoirs of the particiants.

Having said that, in the past i've shot rifle silhouette (standing unsupported) with a no32mkii scope to 500 m offhand...with surprising success.
 
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