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washley

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I did the CFSC and CRFSC in September to get it out of the way as I live up north and feel I am progressively moving closer to using guns for safety while hiking up there. I also have an interest in firearms in general, tactical training to be prepared if my safety ever does matter against an animal or human threat. I have crossbows but I am thinking that it will be less weight to carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm particularly concerned about bears and wolves, and to a lesser extent pissed off mooses. I'm feeling unconfident a 160-180lb draw will be sufficient to protect me from a charging bear or moose or multiple wolves. Although the chance of attack is limited, I would like to do a couple long distance hikes ~120km each way this summer.
(I also like to berry pick)

Now I am also somewhat frugal... and the question says what classes do you wish to possess in the next 5 years, here is the problem, honestly I would like to have access to possess restricted, non restricted and prohibited class firearms, but I don't want to nix my chances at having access to a large caliber rifle at minimum to deal with bears and moose. Hunting is a secondary concern, I've encountered them while out, and been warned a bunch of times hiking last year.

Even though I don't think I will find a restricted class as "usable" for self defence while hiking, because I would need to secure a carry permit, and as a first time firearms user don't think that it will be convenient, as I like to travel, and I don't know anyone with the ability to take care of a restricted class firearm (I do know of someone who can take care of a non restricted in the event of travel, or at least i feel more confident leaving a disassembled, locked and hidden non restricted, than I do a restricted.

I also don't know of how I would legally be able to obtain prohibited firearms unless I was producing them legally, or associated to a related business activity, or having one on loan due to service in the police or military.

It is plausible within 5 years though my situation with safely storing a restricted class weapon, and being responsible for it would alleviate, and I don't want to have to pay the fee again to apply for the restricted, but I'd really like to not complicate the non restricted application, especially as a first time applicant.

I hear the restricted application is more indepth. Should I even bother with the application for restricted if I won't get any use out of it for the next year or so?

Also can you ask for a transport/carry license for a handgun for the woods/crown land in general or must it be a specific location. I have the feeling that they are almost entirely just for shooting ranges, and cannot be used for defence in remote locations again animals such as wolves.
 
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you can not take a restricted firearm in the woods, it can only be in your home or at a approved range listed on your ATT, also you can never get a prohibited lic unless someone in your family has it and passes it down to you.

If you took the rpal course then why not get your rpal? its only like $30 more and you dont have to deal with the wait later on.

If you want something for walking and hikeing in the woods for defense then buy a little light shotgun and get some good ammo
 
Sadly the only way to get the ability to possess prohibited firearms on a new license is if a family member has an applicable firearm and can pass it down to you. From what I've seen, many such firearms would not be the best choice for wilderness carry. Plus you would need Authorization To Carry, which generally requires that you work for an employer who will sponsor you and vouch that a NR shotgun or rifle is impractical in your situation, or to be a trapper or something.
As for restricted firearms, some of these make good choices, such as a sturdy .44 magnum revolver, but again you would need Authorization To Carry.

Non-restricted would be the easiest and most accessable. There are many short shotguns on the market, I think the shortest barrel I've heard of was a 8.5 inch for a Remington 870/Dominion Arms Grizzly.
Or, for a more well-rounded shotgun you could get a longer barrel and a folding stock for the same overall length but better effective range. If a bear's coming at you, being able to hit it farther away is always a good thing.

Or even something like a Rossi Ranch Hand, you can get thigh holsters for them, or it would be easy to get a back/shoulder holster.
A mare's leg would fit the bill as well.
Those are my suggestions, as they are the least trouble to deal with the ridiculous paperwork. Would not surprise me one bit if you called the CFO for authorization to carry in the wilderness for protection from animals and they told you to just call the police or animal control to come save you.

Also, it might be worth mentioning that you could also get an antique pistol in good condition and carry that. Expensive, but it might do what needs to be done.
 
Stevebot-7 said:
Would not surprise me one bit if you called the CFO for authorization to carry in the wilderness for protection from animals and they told you to just call the police or animal control to come save you.
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Which would be interesting given most wilderness I've found myself around tends to not have any cell reception to call for help.
 
Hmm, so I was thinking a shot gun wouldn't be enough to deal with a charging moose, that is stopping it dead. At this point I'm not too concerned about long distance I'm thinking more 10 yards or so, like an attack is imminent, what I'm thinkin is that it won't have to bleed out, and a shot to the chest area or head will take it down within a stride or two. Is there a shotgun shell I can get that is better suited for large animals such as moose, that will provide the penetration. I really don't want to just wound an animal and for it to run off, for various reasons. I was thinking a shot gun would be the best choice, but I was also thinking a large calibre handgun would weigh less and take up less weight and be just effective at the range I'm looking at, but would be too much trouble.

Basically I'm generally only up at my place between April and Early September, but this year may be different, but I' still not expecting to be up there all year and may try to get away during the coldest part of winter. Ive heard that the nonrestricted isn't as indepth, i.e. they will contact references and do a police background check; however for the restricted, they actually will come out to your nieghbourhood talk with neighbours and look at the safety of the site where storage will take place. I don't really chat with my neighbours much at all, and one neighbour put up a fence... I'm cool with them, but they have parties and last year one person got a little violent while drunk, and was screaming about fighting so I went out back where there is no fence to see what the hell was going on, and the neighbor tried to get me to fight with them, which just seems to be the whole, my neighbour is pissed off at me, and may not want me to have a gun if they want to fight me. Now, my neighbor, there seems to be multiple people living at the place has apologized for stuff that has happened the day after etc.. ex. when people pissed on my garage and walked over my raspberries, but I don't like the idea of needing to in anyway involve them in the fact of whether I have a gun or don't have a gun. I've been fairly courteous with them, but he's a country boy and clearly is trying to create a barrier. I know its just alchohol, mostly, but I don't want to risk the restricted background search resulting in denile of a nonrestricted, as I think I may need it in general if I'm up there for more of the year.


Any specific shotgun models that will be enough to stop a moose from close range?

There are no roads up there for police to respond on any time soon. I'm not thinking I see an animal, I think thinging the animal is charging me, and is moving faster than me. I've had two such chases happen in the last 3 years, and I'm getting spooked having to rely on large rocks.

My house backs to crownland that goes up into Kenora and James Bay, the only thing up that way is a maze of old logging roads and the abandoned NTR mainline, and the ghost towns and military posts that dot it. Opp won't be finding me quick if I make a call takes 30 minutes alone to get to my house in town.
 
I wouldn't concern yourself about model of shotgun as much as I would the type of shells you're loading (and then the proper barrel to work with it). If you want serious take down power, you will most likely be looking at something with weight and velocity behind it. There are a few options with shotgun ammunition and I think your best bets are looking at heavier shot, or a slug. I'd still go for shot, like 000 buckshot over a slug because you still get a spread pattern with possibly a 4" to 6" spread at 10 meters. At least this way in a more panic scenario, you are still in a position where you will be pointing rather than aiming the firearm at attacking wildlife.

If you can get an ATC for a handgun, by all means, do it. I'm looking into playing around with cast .500 S&W boolits once I get mine. Those suckers would be more than happy to take out a moose with extreme prejudice. Gun isn't too cheap though. To stay within non-restricted categories, I would recommend a nice Rem 870 with 000 buckshot.
 
A shot gun loaded with slugs is going to be way more effective for stopping a moose/ bear than a cross bow or a handgun . With a handgun you NEED to be able to shoot it to be effective (with a shorter sight radius it is harder for a new shooter to aim effectively) a Shotgun with slugs will require you to be able to aim and shoot as well but it is much easier for a newer shooter to aim a full stocked 12 ga. shotgun . I would STRONGLY advise you to put some time in at a range/ getting used to your gun with whatever gun you decide to buy before you go off into the bush with it for "protection" there is nothing worse than hearing a click on an empty chamber when you have already fired all your ammo at a ticked off bear / moose. Look into a bear aware course or info on the internet and don't go hiking during the Rut unless you are planning on bringing home some meat for the winter .
 
Just a thought, but for dangerous game protection, a shorter barrel lever action rifle is probably a good bet. You can get ones that are pretty handy, short overall length, and in a caliber like 45/70 government. With a stout load (I have seen 430 grain hard lead flat nose available here in Canada - maximum penetration) that is pretty much able to kill anything that walks on land in N. America. The recoil is brutal, but with a charging bear you only get one shot anyway (and if you have time, the lever action lets you quickly take that second shot, or if there are multiple targets).

The kind of thing I am thinking of is that is widely available new is a Marlin 1895 G or GBL - short guide gun lever action, 45/70 gov, 5 shot mag, 20 inch barrel. It will hurt to shoot, but so will anything that could actually provide effective protection against truly dangerous game (e.g. Kodiac grizzly, polar bear, insane moose...). Most of the testwork done with shotguns actually shows them to be insufficient against that sort of threat. A 12 gauge slug has poor sectional density, and buck shot doesn't deter a 1000 pound brown bear.

As for applying for both licences - I don't think there is much complication created by applying for restricted along with the non-restricted. They are slow and a PITA regardless of what licences you apply for. Might as well give yourself the additional options, for the $20 increase in filing fee.

Best Regards, Gerald
 
washley said:
Ive heard that the nonrestricted isn't as indepth, i.e. they will contact references and do a police background check; however for the restricted, they actually will come out to your nieghbourhood talk with neighbours and look at the safety of the site where storage will take place.
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Umm nope. I just got my Restricted and all that was involved were the interviews. No one came around my place to check things out.
 
washley said:
Hmm, so I was thinking a shot gun wouldn't be enough to deal with a charging moose, that is stopping it dead. At this point I'm not too concerned about long distance I'm thinking more 10 yards or so, like an attack is imminent, what I'm thinkin is that it won't have to bleed out, and a shot to the chest area or head will take it down within a stride or two. Is there a shotgun shell I can get that is better suited for large animals such as moose, that will provide the penetration. I really don't want to just wound an animal and for it to run off, for various reasons. I was thinking a shot gun would be the best choice, but I was also thinking a large calibre handgun would weigh less and take up less weight and be just effective at the range I'm looking at, but would be too much trouble.
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not going to lie i would not trust my life on a handgun from a charging moose, your best bet is prob a shotgun with buck shot or slugs loaded hot, or maybe buy yourself a little rifle like cz 858,You can see about getting a permit for wilderness carry but i bet you have about 0.000000001% chance of getting it
 
washley said:
Basically I'm generally only up at my place between April and Early September, but this year may be different, but I' still not expecting to be up there all year and may try to get away during the coldest part of winter. Ive heard that the nonrestricted isn't as indepth, i.e. they will contact references and do a police background check; however for the restricted, they actually will come out to your nieghbourhood talk with neighbours and look at the safety of the site where storage will take place. I don't really chat with my neighbours much at all, and one neighbour put up a fence... I'm cool with them, but they have parties and last year one person got a little violent while drunk, and was screaming about fighting so I went out back where there is no fence to see what the hell was going on, and the neighbor tried to get me to fight with them, which just seems to be the whole, my neighbour is pissed off at me, and may not want me to have a gun if they want to fight me. Now, my neighbor, there seems to be multiple people living at the place has apologized for stuff that has happened the day after etc.. ex. when people pissed on my garage and walked over my raspberries, but I don't like the idea of needing to in anyway involve them in the fact of whether I have a gun or don't have a gun. I've been fairly courteous with them, but he's a country boy and clearly is trying to create a barrier. I know its just alchohol, mostly, but I don't want to risk the restricted background search resulting in denile of a nonrestricted, as I think I may need it in general if I'm up there for more of the year.
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the application for pal and rpal are the same except you check the rpal box to that the only difference, If you only applie for the Pal then you just wait the days up to 45 then if you pass the background then you get you lic, for the rpal they only call you and your 2 reference( they ask the same question that you answer of the application btw) they don't come out to your house to check safe storage or to interview you and your reference in person( they might if they have concerns with you but i have never heard of it though)
 
and hint of advise, if there are drunk people and they want to fight then stay away from them, dont go out and confront them, its a easy way to get yourself up %hit creek and to loss your guns and get charge for assault
 
"...sufficient to protect me from a..." Neither will any handgun. If Yogi is within 100 yards(he can cover that in less than 6 seconds), you'll never be fast enough with any firearm. No firearm is going to stop and charging beastie either. Physics won't allow it.
In any case, like Mil Specs says, a shotgun(pump perferably) with slugs(no buckshot. Buckshot is unreliable.) will give you the best chance of surviving. And you must practice until shooting is an extension of yourself.
"...prohibited firearms on a new licence is..." That doesn't apply to all prohibited firearms either.
 
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