RCMP pistol qualification requirements?

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rdelliott

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Tried to search this, but the search function appears to be T-U.

Does anybody know what are the pistol qualification requirements for RCMP constables, in terms of how many rounds they have to fire per year to what standard?

It would certainly be amusing to tell the people saying that only cops have the necessary training etc yadda yadda that I shoot X times what they do in a year...
 
What is amusing is that some people seem to think that because they shoot more, or score higher on a test that doesn't accurately simulate combat conditions, that they're "more qualified" to carry a firearm.
 
I have to agree with Jono, I do not work for the RCMP, but I'm with a federal agency that carries weapons. We qualify once a fiscal year, thats it.Period. I do lots of shooting on my own because the govt does not want to spend the money to have us shooting more. I mostly do combat scenario shooting to simulate the environment I'm in. Just cause "your" a fantastic IPSIC or PPC shooter does not make you "more qualified". I'm a firm believer that the most important aspect of combat shooting is your judgment, when to shoot, where to shoot, ammo management, location of the engagement, all these things should be entering your head before you pull a trigger. Just cause your getting shot at....does not mean you can return fire. Now don't get me wrong, I firmly agree with having private citizens aquire CCW permits, but I don't think the joe blow pistol shooter, has had the proper training for judgment during a shooting engagement, regardless of how many rounds they have busted off at the range.
 
I have to agree with Jono, I do not work for the RCMP, but I'm with a federal agency that carries weapons. We qualify once a fiscal year, thats it.Period. I do lots of shooting on my own because the govt does not want to spend the money to have us shooting more. I mostly do combat scenario shooting to simulate the environment I'm in. Just cause "your" a fantastic IPSIC or PPC shooter does not make you "more qualified". I'm a firm believer that the most important aspect of combat shooting is your judgment, when to shoot, where to shoot, ammo management, location of the engagement, all these things should be entering your head before you pull a trigger. Just cause your getting shot at....does not mean you can return fire. Now don't get me wrong, I firmly agree with having private citizens aquire CCW permits, but I don't think the joe blow pistol shooter, has had the proper training for judgment during a shooting engagement, regardless of how many rounds they have busted off at the range.

This is a really good comment! Just because someone can put 10 rounds into a target doesn't mean that they'll know when to pull the trigger and when not to.
 
I know a police officer with London police, his proficiencies are off the charts with most firearms, pistol, shotgun, rifle, sub. Then again, I think he is part of their special weapons unit, and I don't know what system they use to measure proficiency.
 
I have to agree with Jono, I do not work for the RCMP, but I'm with a federal agency that carries weapons. We qualify once a fiscal year, thats it.Period. I do lots of shooting on my own because the govt does not want to spend the money to have us shooting more. I mostly do combat scenario shooting to simulate the environment I'm in. Just cause "your" a fantastic IPSIC or PPC shooter does not make you "more qualified". I'm a firm believer that the most important aspect of combat shooting is your judgment, when to shoot, where to shoot, ammo management, location of the engagement, all these things should be entering your head before you pull a trigger. Just cause your getting shot at....does not mean you can return fire. Now don't get me wrong, I firmly agree with having private citizens aquire CCW permits, but I don't think the joe blow pistol shooter, has had the proper training for judgment during a shooting engagement, regardless of how many rounds they have busted off at the range.

The 'average' gunfight occurs at a range of less than 21 feet, without warning and lasts at most 20 seconds. Where to shoot? try the centre of the SOB trying to kill you. Ammo management? most policemen in actual gunfights know it's over when they hear the click from their empty gun. Location of the engagement? Give me a break, if you could plan it you wouldn't be there. Please don't try to suggest that there is some "Secret Judgement Guide for Law Enforcement" that regardless of what may be poor technical skill makes Law Enforcement better able to make the judgement calls necessary to stay alive. If such a guide does exist, please send it to Depot in Regina - from the looks of things in BC lately they've lost their copy.
 
I have to agree with Jono, I do not work for the RCMP, but I'm with a federal agency that carries weapons. We qualify once a fiscal year, thats it.Period. I do lots of shooting on my own because the govt does not want to spend the money to have us shooting more. I mostly do combat scenario shooting to simulate the environment I'm in. Just cause "your" a fantastic IPSIC or PPC shooter does not make you "more qualified". I'm a firm believer that the most important aspect of combat shooting is your judgment, when to shoot, where to shoot, ammo management, location of the engagement, all these things should be entering your head before you pull a trigger. Just cause your getting shot at....does not mean you can return fire. Now don't get me wrong, I firmly agree with having private citizens aquire CCW permits, but I don't think the joe blow pistol shooter, has had the proper training for judgment during a shooting engagement, regardless of how many rounds they have busted off at the range.

I raise the BS flag here for a couple of reasons. Based on the minimal training requirements for any armed officers in Canada (police/CBSA/armed guards - limited I know), to think that you can take that training and shoot "on your own" and that is going to equate to a verifiable and measurable heightened level of proficiency over someone who competes against other shooters on a regular basis is fallacious. I don't care what kind of scenarios you are shooting, you need critical, impartial feedback and someone to put you under various stressors in order to improve.

Read Jim Cirillo's works and take a long, hard, serious look at what he has to say about the value of competition shooting as it applied to the (numerous) gunfights that he was involved in. He readily credits his competition experience (primarily PPC) with his victories - there were more that a few, and several of them were against multiple opponents. The fact that he survived and they didn't is tribute to the validity of his theories and their usage in real life.


blake
 
Tried to search this, but the search function appears to be T-U.

Does anybody know what are the pistol qualification requirements for RCMP constables, in terms of how many rounds they have to fire per year to what standard?

It would certainly be amusing to tell the people saying that only cops have the necessary training etc yadda yadda that I shoot X times what they do in a year...

They shoot different stages but the most challenging is 25 meters. 5 shots standing behind a barricade (strong hand), 2 shots weak hand, 5 kneeling and 2 prone.
It's a long drawn out process to explain the target with values and the other stages. They shoot 50 rounds total for requal. I believe it varies from division to division as to how many rounds they get for extra range time.
I highly doubt there isn't one CGNer on here who owns a pistol (and shoots it) who couldn't pass this course. The first time I tried I got a 234/250.

But trying to argue that because you shoot 2 or 3 times what the average mountie shoots per year as an argument for CCW isn't that relevant. It is the scenarios with the FATS machine where you need to show your proper judgement.

I think there is an industry in Canada that could exist for CCW. If you put applicants for CCW through the same tests and courses as the RCMP the CCW permits would cost thousands of dollars.
Medical
vision
psychological
criminal records check
3 week course

Just think of all of the Mounties who would start these companies and become millionaires!
 
I have to agree with Jono, I do not work for the RCMP, but I'm with a federal agency that carries weapons. We qualify once a fiscal year, thats it.Period. I do lots of shooting on my own because the govt does not want to spend the money to have us shooting more. I mostly do combat scenario shooting to simulate the environment I'm in. Just cause "your" a fantastic IPSIC or PPC shooter does not make you "more qualified". I'm a firm believer that the most important aspect of combat shooting is your judgment, when to shoot, where to shoot, ammo management, location of the engagement, all these things should be entering your head before you pull a trigger. Just cause your getting shot at....does not mean you can return fire. Now don't get me wrong, I firmly agree with having private citizens aquire CCW permits, but I don't think the joe blow pistol shooter, has had the proper training for judgment during a shooting engagement, regardless of how many rounds they have busted off at the range.

Which agency is this? Fisheries and Oceans?
 
OK, I appreciate the comments and thoughts, but here's the thing,I know most pistol engagements are self defensive and actually happen within 3-7 feet, 21 feet is your minimum draw against a knife attack and as for the actual shooting its gonna be instinctive, but there are other scenarios that occur. I never said that I had some sort of superhuman judgment cause I practice, I practice so that I become a better shooter, does not make my scene interpretation any better As for the PPC comment, I never said that it would not help you, I merely said, that just cause you shoot it does not give you better judgment, however I would say that due to the fact that PPC teaches excellent fundamentals that you would have higher chance of hitting the target, call BS if you want, but we just differ on opinion, here is the other thing, I said I simulate shooting the environment which I'm in, and no its not fisheries and Oceans,lol. As for the where to shoot, when to shoot, I'm talking situations, your a on a crowded busy street with tons of bystanders, or your in a hospital, your gonna start busting rounds off that's not risky at all(yes I'm being sarcastic)..., yeah duh center mass..but what if the only visible mass you have is a calf, or a arm, that's now your center mass,as for ammo management, you better have your reloading down pat, especially if your carrying a revolver and you know you have only 12 rounds in total. oh and by the way if you hear click it will probably be the last thing you here, you never wanna hear click. You never want a empty gun. So if I'm off in thinking those things are important, well, I guess I have to disagree with my learned colleagues on this site.
 
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I'll mae one comment here in regards to the RCMP (I can't comment on any of the other police forces in Canada) the scores they have to shoot for qualification & re-qual ever year are done with a handgun with a 14lb trigger pull... Try to shoot a 200/250 at 25 meters with that... and its not always slow fire either... double taps are practiced as well...

(I have tried a dry fire with a RCMP side arm... very difficult to keep the sights on target with that trigger pull)
 
I'll mae one comment here in regards to the RCMP (I can't comment on any of the other police forces in Canada) the scores they have to shoot for qualification & re-qual ever year are done with a handgun with a 14lb trigger pull... Try to shoot a 200/250 at 25 meters with that... and its not always slow fire either... double taps are practiced as well...

(I have tried a dry fire with a RCMP side arm... very difficult to keep the sights on target with that trigger pull)

are you trying to say the RCMP pistol are the only ones with a 14lb trigger pulls ? not everyone has trigger jobs done to there pistols. learn to shoot with heavy pull and you wont have problems with a light pull ;)
 
I have shot some 5946's that had the trigger cleaned up and are far better than the regular ones. I have met LEO, that don't know the name of the gun they carry or how it works. I have also talked to LEO who say that in some departments having a firearm interest is frowned upon. What I have noted is that the ones who do care about their firearm and how to use it are very good with it.

There is no reason that a well thought out course for CCW can't be designed, just as there is no reason to bar handgun hunting.
 
Range practice and ppc are great but I don't think they really reflect a situation where someone is actually trying to kill you or do you grievous bodily harm. I know it's easy to say "I'd blast him" but it takes a lot of training and experience to react correctly in a life and death situation.
I cringe when I hear glib comments like "he got what he deserved" etc. like it was something out of the movies. Taking a human life no matter how justified it was is not an easy thing to do or live with afterwards.
 
It would certainly be amusing to tell the people saying that only cops have the necessary training etc yadda yadda that I shoot X times what they do in a year...[/QUOTE]

It would seem that the only reason you started this would be to try to discredit the RCMP. Get a job with the CBC if you want to do that.

If you think that the number of rounds a LEO puts downrange every year qualifies a them or any police officer to carry a gun, then you have no idea what the responsibility of carrying a firearm daily really entails.

I will be the first mountie to admit that we should be shooting more, qualifying more, and receiving more training. I shoot thousands of extra rounds a year out of rifles, pistols and shotguns - all at my own expense because the RCMP is too tight with the $$$. But carrying a gun is only partly about qualifications and knowing how to use a gun. It is also knowing when and why to use a gun too, and believe me, it is not like TV or a video game in real life.
 
It would certainly be amusing to tell the people saying that only cops have the necessary training etc yadda yadda that I shoot X times what they do in a year...

It would seem that the only reason you started this would be to try to discredit the RCMP. Get a job with the CBC if you want to do that.

If you think that the number of rounds a LEO puts downrange every year qualifies a them or any police officer to carry a gun, then you have no idea what the responsibility of carrying a firearm daily really entails.

I will be the first mountie to admit that we should be shooting more, qualifying more, and receiving more training. I shoot thousands of extra rounds a year out of rifles, pistols and shotguns - all at my own expense because the RCMP is too tight with the $$$. But carrying a gun is only partly about qualifications and knowing how to use a gun. It is also knowing when and why to use a gun too, and believe me, it is not like TV or a video game in real life.[/QUOTE]


So being a police officer, are you pro or anti CCW?
 
They shoot different stages but the most challenging is 25 meters. 5 shots standing behind a barricade (strong hand), 2 shots weak hand, 5 kneeling and 2 prone.
It's a long drawn out process to explain the target with values and the other stages. They shoot 50 rounds total for requal. I believe it varies from division to division as to how many rounds they get for extra range time.
I highly doubt there isn't one CGNer on here who owns a pistol (and shoots it) who couldn't pass this course. The first time I tried I got a 234/250.

Thanks! Exactly what I was looking for. Seems I shoot at least three-four times that much per range outing. Figure eighteen of those, averaged out per month, and yeah, exactly what I expected.

Most of us probably shoot dozens of times more on an annual basis than what the average Mountie needs to shoot at minimum.
 
It would certainly be amusing to tell the people saying that only cops have the necessary training etc yadda yadda that I shoot X times what they do in a year...

It would seem that the only reason you started this would be to try to discredit the RCMP. Get a job with the CBC if you want to do that.

[/quote]

Hardly. I'm trying to educate the average non-shooter as to the level of proficiency of your average recreational shooter.

I'm a pretty average recreational shooter, and if I shoot several times what a Mountie has to shoot to stay qualified in an average range tip, that should open the eyes of your average clueless anti a little.

Sorry if my original post wasn't sufficiently ass-kissy or deferential to satisy your sense of self-importance.
 
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