Re : Canadian obsession with an American Rifle

My question is what Canadian milsurp rifles aren't restricted or prohibited? You mention the Lee-Enfield being a "british" rifle, and not a Canadian one and that's really all that is available to in the non-restricted class for patriotic Canadians to buy. And most of those have been butchered into there "sporterized" forms. A good full wood version commands a premium these days it seems.

As Canadians, it seems our options are very limited.
 
If I could only shoot one milsurp (and I own over 100 of them) it would probably be my M1 Garand. It feels more comfortable in the prone position than a #4 (which is the least comfortable of the bunch) and has excellent click adjustable sights. I like shooting and hitting things, so good sights and trigger are important.
 
Cdn303 said:
I agree. Unless I happen upon an old lady looking to sell her deceased husbands guns fast, one will probably never grace my cabinet
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if any 12.5 owners want to keep my email handy :p

but there is always the option of building your own brens/stens with a longer barrel the sten is NR and built right the bren will be NR
 
tacfoley said:
...and Quebec is a province of Canada, right? Just checking I hadn't missed something that could have been important here, like Quebec seceding from the Confederation while I wasn't looking. Hate to be stuck in a furrin country, me.

tac
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you never know with quebec most of them want it to be its own country and pretty much why the gun laws are the way they are one mass shooting there and the rest of us canadians have to suffer
 
Since I joined the CF, I have had an obsession with Rifle, 7.62mm FN C1A1, it is the stuff of legends, the way the older guys speak of it. I have never held one, never fired one, but god do I want to own one.

More recently however, I have started to have an appreciation for the Ross rifle, however, trying to find a full military Ross is a challenge in itself.

In the meantime, I have collected several other milsurps, I have a beautiful M1 Garand, a .30 caliber FN 49, which I feel is a much better rifle, despite my love of the M1, the ubiquitous Long Branch Lee-Enfield, the Soviet SVT-40 and SKS, and a lovely, new built M-14 rifle. Why would you limit yourself to only one, is beyond me. A passion for firearms, and history, should not be limited to one nation, you should own what interest you, with a minimum of constraints.
 
Let's define what could be considered a Canadian rifle. Ross, Lee enfield (long branch), Bren gun, sten, sterling, FN C1, c7, c8.

Out of all of these, you can find ross and lee enfield rifles. If you're savvy.
You can get the current sniper rifles if you want them. Most aren't even aware what they are.

Nobody offers factory NOS repaired ross and lee enfields.. nobody features them in movies or on TV.
The Americans have always been very busy proclaiming that they won every war that there ever was. Propaganda and advertising at its finest. M1 Garands always feature prominently in these media.
I have to tell people what a lee enfield or Ross is when I take mine out shooting.. but I bet everyone would recognize a garand. Cool factor!



Matthew Marchand I like your attitude :)
 
Ok fair enough.You do however know that you are suggesting to people what to think and what to like don't you?Sound like a particular group?

I'll play this card.

That computer you are typing on where was that made?

The cell phone you are using where was that made?

The plates you eat from I bet say made in China or Korea too.;)

You want a Garand, buy it and love it.

You want a Mosin, but that too if you want.

I think it has to do with the rifle itself not where it is made.Heck people don't want VW's because they are German , they want 60 MPGs's.




johann_seb said:
So, near as I can tell, we all love m1 Garands. Except for me, that is. The highest proponent of the rifle, near as I can tell, is Gunny. He sings its accolades in a wonderful accent - love songs always sound better with an accent of some sort. The problem that I have with the M1-ophiles on this thread and elsewhere is their nationality. This is CGN, not the NRA-North. Surely we have better examples (and nearer and dearer to our hearts) of Canadian military engineering that far surpass the quality of the M1.

My suggestions for future CGN obsessions are the Ross (any version, although I've heard the .280 factory Sporter was to die for) or the FN products (C1A1 in particular; if anyone has one I'd love to see it). These rifles deserve our attention as well - and you sure as heckfire don't have to pay $1300 for the silly thing.

Britophiles would like the LE, I fear that the idealization of the M1 garand on this forum and elsewhere in pop culture might just be further diluting the Canadian identity in general and the Canadian military tradition specifically. Now now, before you all get your hackles up, remember its a friendly discussion - and that the money that you have all paid for an M1 invariably ended or started with the American government and their unwillingness to market these rifles outside their borders. I believe Canadian masterpieces deserve their own day in the sun.

And who better to offer it than Canadian Gun Nutz ?

(If you can't own 'em, troll 'em. :))
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Skaal-tel said:
Let's define what could be considered a Canadian rifle. Ross, Lee enfield (long branch), Bren gun, sten, sterling, FN C1, c7, c8.

Out of all of these, you can find ross and lee enfield rifles. If you're savvy.
You can get the current sniper rifles if you want them. Most aren't even aware what they are.

Nobody offers factory NOS repaired ross and lee enfields.. nobody features them in movies or on TV.
The Americans have always been very busy proclaiming that they won every war that there ever was. Propaganda and advertising at its finest. M1 Garands always feature prominently in these media.
I have to tell people what a lee enfield or Ross is when I take mine out shooting.. but I bet everyone would recognize a garand. Cool factor!



Matthew Marchand I like your attitude :)
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it would be cool to get NOS ross rifles or even parts there is still lee enfields from time to time there is next to know NOS stuff the last to come here where the no4 mk1's from india and the no4 mk2 from pakistan

surplus lee enfields were sold off by the 80's and the 10,000 or so set aside for the canadian rangers will be destroyed or bought by someone(maybe marstar will jump in here)
 
Well, guys - more response than I had expected, but thank you for your impassioned responses. Mostly, one of my acquaintances has just purchased one for an exorbitant price (1300). Now, its in good shape and all, and I'm sure that it shoots as straight as any on the market. The cons are quickly outweighing the pros for me here - namely:

- there is little or no milsurp FMJ ammo floating around in .30-06 Springfield. That which I have found specifically labelled 'garand' (I'm not sure if this is relevant) is about $35 a box. With the way I shoot semi autos, I would simply need a bigger boat. What's the good of an 8shot magazine if it costs 14 bucks every time you hear that 'ping'.

- who would want to fire, even if we could find some, corrosive ammunition in a thousand dollar firearm?

- who would consider purchasing a rifle for the cost of two months' rent (or one mortgage payment) that is easily indentifiable. I like telling people about my Ross, and my SVT, and combined with my sks they still didn't run me $1300.

- American-bashing aside, I still don't understand why we are obsessed with these, as a milsurp option, north of the border. Like I said at the outset, the government down there has tried their darndest to keep Garands in the hands of good American shooters. Every time I look at the availability (or lack thereof) from an armory of a good specimen, it comes down to the sellers being unwilling to part with them. This alone does not mean the rifle is remarkable.

- The red rifles that I mentioned above have comparable accuracy, and I agree with the fellow above that pitted the SVT against the Garand.

I don't mean to suggest that if I unlimited resources that I would not seek out a version of this rifle. I mean to say that, with limited resources, one of my acquaintances just paid far too much for a firearm that has little or no practical use, and little or no Canadian story. I know their economy can always use the boost these days, but I'd rather spend my admittedly small firearm budget on something that is fun, cheap to shoot and accurate. The 7.62 x 54 round may just have comparable stopping power and, with a steelcore bullet, better armor penetration.

To my mind, I just meant to understand the obsession we have expressed singularly on this forum lately. The Ross threads make sense, the red rifles are cheap as borscht. But an American rifle that makes a cool sound when its empty ? I remain

Entirely Unconvinced,
andy
 
Well, you CAN always do what I do: pick up military brass at gun shows and RELOAD.

I have a Garand, a 1953 Springfield, with about 400 rounds through it since it was made. I bought it unfired, $275 in Winnipeg, some years ago.

I got half a chest of that '06 ammo that came out of 'Nam, that LC-69 stuff, shot off a bit, still have a couple of bandos left.

But the "bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-CLANG" routine gets old fast.

It also heats up a good rifle, which is plain stupid. Get any rifle good and hot a few times and your PINPOINT accuracy is shot forever.

So I developed a little trick of aiming to give me better accuracy and started handloading for the thing.

Now, can anybody tell me this: WHY should I cough up a buck a shot for 40-year-old surplus ammo that shoots 2 to 3 MOA........ or a buck and a half for factory-fresh that shoots 1.5 or 2 MOA...... when I can load my own for SIXTY CENTS and have a half-minute rifle?

And yes, John Cantius Garand was a Canadian. So was James Paris Lee, for that matter. Hiram Maxim lived here, went back to the States because he got SCROOD on business deal, became British (and a Knight) because Edison scrood him out of a little thing called an "electric light bulb". You may have heard of the thing. Every Canadian-born or -raised or -immigrated GENIUS leaves the country because the opportunities elsewhere are so much better. Look at Para-Ord, for the most recent example.

But if you CARE about ANY rifle, you will handload for it.

It's cheaper.

AND better.
 
johann_seb said:
So, near as I can tell, we all love m1 Garands. Except for me, that is. The highest proponent of the rifle, near as I can tell, is Gunny. He sings its accolades in a wonderful accent - love songs always sound better with an accent of some sort. The problem that I have with the M1-ophiles on this thread and elsewhere is their nationality. This is CGN, not the NRA-North. Surely we have better examples (and nearer and dearer to our hearts) of Canadian military engineering that far surpass the quality of the M1.
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FN was Belgian so I wouldn't include that in the list of Canadian military engineering.

Your basically looking at the Ross (plaqued with issues, so can that one) and the Lee Enfield Long Branch (bolt action, not comparable to the semi Garand).
So you move up to the Diemaco produced C7....but that is just a licensed American design/production....but then again so was the long branch (of its british design).

So I think I settle with the fact that the M1 Garand is awesome, and was designed by a Canadian...regardless if his folks jumped ship.

http://w ww.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/rifles.htm
 
Avalonthas said:
FN was Belgian so I wouldn't include that in the list of Canadian military engineering.

Your basically looking at the Ross (plaqued with issues, so can that one) and the Lee Enfield Long Branch (bolt action, not comparable to the semi Garand).
So you move up to the Diemaco produced C7....but that is just a licensed American design/production....but then again so was the long branch (of its british design).

So I think I settle with the fact that the M1 Garand is awesome, and was designed by a Canadian...regardless if his folks jumped ship.

http://w ww.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/rifles.htm
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was the garand not made to be a canadian rifle but we did not adopt it
 
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