Re : Canadian obsession with an American Rifle

The M1 was the first massed produced semi auto military rifle issued in quantity, and combined with other arms like the Thompson and BAR, made the firepower potential of the average U.S. Army Squad far more devastating than many others. The only thing similar would be the Red Army squads armed exclusively with PPsH 41, but that was a different kind of war.

M1 Garand could be maintained and fired fairly accurately by an average recruit. The Soviets only issued SVT 40 to NCOs, and the Germans intended Gew 43 only to be issued to specialists.

So in that it is unique.

The Canadians used Garands in the 1st Special Service Force and for airfield defense in Europe immediately after the war, so it wasn't exactly unknown.
 
Don't feel too bad about how much Garands run up here. I went for a day trip to Minot yesterday and Scheels had 3-4 for sale. Beat up, nicked, greasy stocks and mismatched parts.
1200
Which when the price difference is considered; amounts to about 1600 Canadian.
Truth be told, they do have a very superior sight arrangement compared to a Tok. At least until scoped that is.
 
One or two points yet to be mentioned here. Canadian paratroopers serving in the First Special Service Force of WWII fame were issued American weapons (certainly including Garands) alongside thier American counterparts in this famous joint-Canadian/US army unit that fought long and hard bloody battles up the boot of Italy. Also as CGN Garand pointed out quite a while back, Garands were issue to RCAF radar installations and airfields in Europe during the 1950s until the FN became standard issue. And Canadian snipers in Korea had Garands with mounted IR night vision sights available to them, in case of combat during hours of darkness. It was also rumoured that if the last campaign against the Japanese had continued after the bomb drops, American uniforms and small arms were to be issued to both British and Canadian troops, if required to physically invade the main home island.
 
smellie said:
Czech fellow, former Olympic shooter, showed up at the Battle of the Bulge match at CFB Shilo a few years ago.

He had what he called, "just an old piece of sh*t Tokarev".

Nobody paid much attention.

When the match started, he fired 4 fast rounds at the 400 yard targets, one each, and unloaded, then used his pistol on the 175s.

Team went under the razor wire, over the berm and into new positions.

He fired 4 fast rounds, one at each 400-yard target, and unloaded, engaged the close targets with a pistol.

Nobody around here says anything bad about the old "piece of sh*t" Tokarevs.
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I've shot there only once unfortunately, in Dec 2007, I don't remember a Tokarev on the line, being an olympic shooters does explain a lot though. The 400 yard target was a "German" in a bell tower that year. It was an Excellent match.
 
Had to drag mine out and think about it, but not for long. Might be long and heavy, but once you put your hands on it, everything is smooth and in the right place, just like a beautiful woman. ;) Very few guns you can say that about.

Grizz
 
Not only was the M1 Garand invented by a man born in Quebec, Canada.
It was also issued to some Canadians.
* Kiska Invasion 1943 - Canadians and Americans in the invasion force carried the M1 Garand.
* First Special Service Force (composed of Americans and Canadians) carried the M1 Garand throughout their existance.
* M1 Garand was ISSUED to Canadian troops in early 1950s. The BAR, M1 Carbine, M3A1 Grease Gun, M1919A4 and 3.5" Rocket Launcher were also issued. I had the Canadian EME technical parts pages for the M1 Garand (still have copies).
* 1 Canadian Parachute Battalion - Some of the veterans picked up M1 Garands on the drop-zone or Battle of the Bulge abandoned rifles. There are wartime photos showing this. Cliff Douglas told me he saw M1 Garands lying by the side of the road, abandoned during the Battle of the Bulge.

The FN C1A1, a Belgian Fabrique National design, was very nice (I carried it a lot as an infantry officer).

So although the M1 Garand was principally an American weapon, it has a very strong Canadian connection.

You want to talk about 100% CANADIAN weapons?
* How about the Huot Automatic Rifle of 1918 (a Ross Model 1910 converted to full-auto - I have fired one and have found 4 surviving examples SN 1, 2, 4 & 5. - General Currie ordered 5,000 of them in October 1918)
* The Douglas Submachine Gun? I donated the 7 prototypes of the Douglas SMG to the Canadian War Musuem on behalf of the estate of my friend, the inventor, Cliff Douglas of Courtenay, BC (Pre-war Militiaman CScotR, D-Day and Battle of the Bulge sniper veteran of 1 Canadian Parachute Battalion and Royal Canadian Navy post-WWII.)
 
I always thought of the FN FAL as a far superior rifle in every way.
That's just me though.

Don't forget that the Garand was invented and developed by a Canadian.
Mr Garand was born in Quebec near Quebec City before he moved to the States.

They are awesome rifles for what they were.
But I would have an FN any day if my government said I could:(
 
Not even gonna bother reading the thread before I chuck my two cents in;

I think we like the Garand because it is one of the last 'real' surplus main battle rifles we can own. Well made, solid .30 cal rifles. 8 round capacity too! Very fun. Whether Garand was born here or not, don't matter to me none.

And that's about it. If we could still own Brens, we'd be all over that, methinks... but no dice. I'd rather have a C1A1, but no dice. The Ross... why not? (Hard to find?) Easy to own, just like an SMLE No1 or 4. For me that would be the apex of Canadian gun iconography; Long Branch SMLEs.

I'm almost of a mind to consider the Norinco the de-facto Canadian rifle, as its as close as a fine upstanding Canadian citizen can get to a C1 these days... considering it's brute accessibility and resulting popularity. Durable, reliable (mostly, lol). But no, not really Canuckian.

There's a couple of 'fine' C7 and C8 clones on the EE...
 
So, continuing on his poor judgment, the same friend's purchase that spurred me to start the thread deserves another hearing. He sold his quad to buy a Garand, which he assured me was worth it. Paid $1200, from what I can see that's a fair price, given current market conditions.

He gets it home, doesn't have time to shoot it yet, and takes it apart. Finds that there are no matching numbers in the entire thing. Oh yeah - and the receiver is pitted all the way to heck. "Adds to her authenticity" says he.

"Piece of junk" says I. *shrugs* My Ross is pitted a little on the barrel, but that's because it didn't have the good luck to be born in Mother Russia. Both of my Russians are in wonderful shape, and whether they match or not doesn't exactly matter at $300 per. Wouldn't it sound like, to me the uneducated concerned friend, he got took ?
 
Brutus said:
One should start another thread entitled: Re: Canadian obsession with a British rifle
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Hey, You talking about a Baker Rifle?
baker1.jpg


If someone wants to spend that kind of money on a garand they can go right ahead. Those of us with life obligations will just have to do without, watching war movies, longing for the days of the $300 garand (and continue to use our piece of sh*t tokarev's, or enfield's, or mosin's, etc).

I for one, have far more important things to be spending $1200-$2000 on. Like new glasses, wisdom teeth pulled, car repairs, rent, paying off debt.

I was going to say something else, but, in typing this I just came to the point that I just don't care for this "mine is better than yours" bullsh*t anymore.
 
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Cdn303 said:
Hey, You talking about a Baker Rifle?
baker1.jpg


If someone wants to spend that kind of money on a garand they can go right ahead. Those of us with life obligations will just have to do without, watching war movies, longing for the days of the $300 garand (and continue to use our piece of sh*t tokarev's, or enfield's, or mosin's, etc).

I for one, have far more important things to be spending $1200-$2000 on. Like new glasses, wisdom teeth pulled, car repairs, rent, paying off debt.

I was going to say something else, but, in typing this I just came to the point that I just don't care for this "mine is better than yours" bullsh*t anymore.
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Agree, if a buyer dont mind to pay the price we see now for various Garand, fine but as you said, we have manys things to pay in our everyday life. I'm so glad that i bought my Beretta Garand manys years ago for $290, even if i could make a good profit selling it now, i wont sell because i couldn't afford to replace it because of the current prices.
Joce
 
Over the years I've had many foreign battle rifle's including M1 Garand's back when "Band of Brother's" came out and they from $200-$300!. I've owned M1 carbine's, Mosin's (very briefly) and score's of Mauser's. I started collecting Enfield's and that's what I've settled on along with several Ross rifle's and a few choice German Mauser's. Like the original poster said, Enfield's and Ross's are near and dear to our heart's. I've enjoyed owning foreign battle rifle's in order to examine and shoot them, but find I don't bond with them. I'm sure other nation's including the U.S. are just as obsessed with Enfields and Ross's as we are.
Cheers
 
John Garand was Canadian, from a small town in Quebec actually. So though it was made in America, we can lay some claim to it.

What also makes it a valuable piece and loved by so many here is that it is a WW2 semi-auto with a legal 8rd capacity, in a calibre that is plentiful and cheap to reload, and the sound of the Enbloc is awesome!

Personally I also love the sights. It is all around a great milsurp to own, shoot, and compete with.

I have a Springfield 1942 that was converted to an M1D in the mid 50s. I will never sell it.
 
sledge said:
John Garand was Canadian, from a small town in Quebec actually. So though it was made in America, we can lay some claim to it.

What also makes it a valuable piece and loved by so many here is that it is a WW2 semi-auto with a legal 8rd capacity, in a calibre that is plentiful and cheap to reload, and the sound of the Enbloc is awesome!

Personally I also love the sights. It is all around a great milsurp to own, shoot, and compete with.

I have a Springfield 1942 that was converted to an M1D in the mid 50s. I will never sell it.
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the tenuous link to Canada is a bit pathetic...we really need to get over it....he moved there as a child.

but yes, the dead give away that you are out of ammunition does sound cool....to the enemy. don't get me wrong..I like my M1..but come on...the enbloc is terrible.
 
vermintrex said:
the tenuous link to Canada is a bit pathetic...we really need to get over it....he moved there as a child.

but yes, the dead give away that you are out of ammunition does sound cool....to the enemy. don't get me wrong..I like my M1..but come on...the enbloc is terrible.
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Other than the odd lone sniper, soldiers fight in firefight teams with other full or partly full rifles, not to mention the other numerous small arms required for battle.
In actual fact in the reloading process the rifle has saved one half the time in recharging the 'magazine' by leaving the action fully open for another en bloc clip. All the user has to do is refill the rifle & it's ready to shoot once again.
This has been noted in Blake Steven's book, U.S. Rifle M-14, from John Garand to the M21. During M-14 trials, a trained soldier could reload the M1 rifle faster than another could reload the empty M-14. Does this one factor make the Garand better than the M-14? Probably not. But it is an interesting and factual point. Unlike the legend of the empty en bloc clip. The en bloc was (damn) fine circa 1936-1945 against an enemy primarily armed with bolt action rifles IMO.
 
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vermintrex said:
but yes, the dead give away that you are out of ammunition does sound cool....to the enemy. don't get me wrong..I like my M1..but come on...the enbloc is terrible.
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In WWII, I would like to hear of a real occurance of the enbock sound getting a soldier killed, because when you are fighting with a squad of guys, you tend to have guys to back you up during reloads. I am not saying it couldn't happen, but getting killed because of the ping sounds like an old wives tale told too many times to me. It would need to be the perfect storm of bad luck for the enemy a field away would hear you shoot empty and engage you successfully without being engaged by your fellow soldiers.

As for the en-block being terrible, I would like to know why you think that?

In my opinion, it is genius, and here is why;

-Extraordinarily lightweight.

-No top or bottom, just shove it in the gun.

-Self ejecting on the last shot, no need to drop the magazine first before inserting the next one. Speeds reloads up by a second or more, which matters a lot when under pressure. One less thing to fumble around with.

-Cheap, simple, and reliable. No moving parts to malfunction, as it is essentially just bent sheet of metal with some spring tension built in to retain the cartridges.

-In high stress situations, I believe the ping would be benificial to the shooter, as it is both a visual and auditory reminder that you are empty that is hard to ignore. The modestly loud "PING" a few inches in front of your face and the enbock shooting up in front of your face should be a pretty clear indicator that your gun is saying, "Hey, time to reload me!" This is far more likely to be benificial to helping you get the gun back to the loaded state then it would during the loud chaos of war in telling an enemy that you, one soldier out of the 20 alongside you, are empty for a few brief seconds.

Just my .02.
 
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