re : firefight in the SandBox

x westie said:
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/19/a-firsthand-look-at-firefights-in-marja/


A interesting Blog with a video of a section of Marines under fire from a Taliban sniper,..also a article on the Lee Enfield rifle , including our good old Canadian No.4 Long Branch
Click to expand...

Take a look at that No.4 Long Branch,..i don't see where it has had a drop of oil since it was in the hands of some Brit or Canuck,..i can't imagine what the bore look like,..using corrosive ammo from WW2
 
Sniper? Give me a break. Hitting a man sized target consistently from 500 to 600 metres is easy. He just knows how to shoot a CNo4Mk1*.
 
So... they spent thousands of dollars, sent a missile into an unintended target unfortunately killing innocents, remained pinned down, and took 1 casualty.

An interesting look at fighting in asymmetrical warfare... Also interesting is the linked article specifically on the marksmanship of the Taliban with these weapons.
 
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That LB, actually looks to be in decent shape.

Yes, it's dirty and dusty but that doesn't mean the rifle hasn't been taken care of properly.

It means that it may just have been in a fight and dropped in the dirt.

The rust on it may be from several things as it looks recent, rather than something that's been there for a long time.

The mag and bolt are missing as well. The stock is in surprisingly good condition as well.

I'm willing to bet that old girl was a prized possession and lovingly taken care of.

I'm willing to bet the rifle was rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt and mag then thrown onto a pile, with a bunch of other captures.

Riflechair is correct, from a stable, position a 600 yard shot is relatively easy with open sights. After all is said and done, pinpoint accuracy isn't required. Any hit to a person, armored or not is going to hurt like hell and demoralize anyone in the immediate area.

At the very least, it will drive them to cover.

There is a lot to be said for "battle rifles" effectiveness, even in today's armies.

There is a good reason why so many M14s and FNFALs were shipped over there as equalizers.

Back in the early seventies, there was still some speculation amongst armies of the world to issue a couple of intermediate round capable rifles with each squad. Bolt actions, weren't ruled out.

The big thing was supply issues and decent ammunition consistency.

The intermediate round was most certainly going to be the 7.62x51 Nato but it was soon put to rest as a bad idea.

Funny thing though, a lot of M1 Garands and M14s managed to find their way into the jungles of Viet Nam with US forces.

The Marines, were issued M14s for quite awhile after the war started.

I'm not the least bit surprised to see that old war horse there. If the internals are decent and the user was reasonably trained in its use, it would be a fearsome opponent right out to and even beyond 1000yards.

There is no reason to believe the Afghanis aren't good marksmen. They have a long tradition of being accomplished warriors.

Many of them are born to it, just like many of us are born to military families as well as hunting/sport shooting families.

They've been trained by the Russians, Chinese, British and Pakistanis. More than likely even a few privateers as well.

That old LB, in the right hands, could easily be used as a force muliplier when applied properly.
 
If you need to make the hit with ONE round, the bolt-action is the ONLY sure bet.

No matter how much you practise, no matter how much you try to psych yourself into a "semi-auto" state of mind, there always lurks in the back of your mind this one devastating thought.....

"Ahh, if I miss, all I have to do is just squeeze the trigger again."

THAT flashes through your mind and you're halfway to pulling the round, just like that.

With a bolt, this does NOT happen because it CAN'T.

You KNOW that you have ONE round to make the hit.

So you make it.

And the old Number 4 is capable of doing it all day long.
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For the first half of the last century, sportsmen went to the local club on Saturdays and Sunday afternoons and shot matches out to 1,000 yards with iron sights. It was a very popular hobby in the vast majority of the Empire/Commonwealth and successful shooting in a major match was something to be proud of - look at the trophies awarded by the NRA(UK), the DCRA etc. There was no consideration given to mounting optics, or suggestions that optics were needed to shoot at 1,000 yards - you simply did it. I think we're all a little spoiled by technology - I heard a guy not too long ago who was pleased that his very expensive rifle with it's very powerful scope was dead on at 1,000 m - at the time I was holding a No1 MkIII with a Parker sight - his rifle and scope cost the equivalent of a new car, the No1 was $700 (he would spend more than twice that on a case of ammo) I found it fascinating that both were capable of the same job.
 
Don't forget this region has been at war for a very long time . they have to have some troops, guys who fought the russians in the 80's as teenagers. If I had to bet i would say this "sniper" is one of those guys. Or he is the afghan version of an "army brat" who listened to military discussions and was trained by two generations of family.
 
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SMELLIE and I were both told the same thing, but in a bit different words, when we started target shooting back in the Dinosaur Era. "The Number 4 Rifle is good up to 600 yards, but if you want to play with the Big Boys at 1000 yards, you had better get a Number 1 Mark III."

You will notice that basically in this video, one guy who knew how to shoot pinned down a large force, and even forced some of them to abandon a position to fall back on more cover.

Then a missile is fired that lands over 300 meters from the intended target, killing innocent Civilians and Children?

What a Gong Show!
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One guy with a decent shot can tie up alot of people for a while. I wonder what happens to all of the captures.
 
Well the bugger is determined and he does have balls. It look like they never were able to get him located. If they did, the SAW fire should have kept him supressed. As it was he seemed free to keep on cranking the rounds out. Score 1 for the bad guys.

I'm not surprised to see a LB No4 turn up there. We still had a substantial stock of them in war reserves in the late 1970s. After about 1980 or so they all diappeared. Talk about anachronisms; the Mujahdahin found the heavy slug from the single shot Martini-Henry to be quite effective on Soviet helicopter blades.
 
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