re: Roller Locking Actions

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phatns2pid

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re: Roller Locking Actions

Someone once mentioned that the HK roller locking system is more accurate than standard gas operated rifles. Is this true? And why the hell would HK discontinue use of the roller locking system if it is better?
 
phatns2pid said:
Someone once mentioned that the HK roller locking system is more accurate than standard gas operated rifles. Is this true? And why the hell would HK discontinue use of the roller locking system if it is better?
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no it is not true.
 
I belive that H&K went to using a conventional gas-operated, rotating bolt method of operation, because it is easier and less expensive to manufacture than the roller-locking method. As well, it doesn't hurt to have more than one rifle design in your inventory
 
The bolt carrier is very heavy on the HK system. It throws the centre of gravity quite far back with each shot. This would decrease accuracy.
 
Some of those trick semis have actions that are way to long and heavy...they take up space and weight that should be used on barrels.
 
redleg said:
no it is not true.
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Yes it is....:D

Apparently the roller locked action is a tighter more precise method of locking and performs much like the dual lugs on a bolt action

My bone stock G3 is more accurate than any other bone stock military semi
 
Klunk said:
Yes it is....:D

Apparently the roller locked action is a tighter more precise method of locking and performs much like the dual lugs on a bolt action

My bone stock G3 is more accurate than any other bone stock military semi
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So is my G3, and it'll shoot the lights out in a competition with a FN L1A1.

Plus, the roller-locked delayed blowback requires far less maintenance in terms of fouling, compared to any gas system.

AND, it's sooooooooo mechanically elegant!:D
 
Compared to conventional gas piston systems, yes I believe it's true, but a high end gas piston gun like the SIG 550 can compete, AR's easily as well. There are numerous other advantages, as mentioned, the lack of gas operation keeps it clean. It's advantage lies in the lack of barrel disruption. Dissadvantage is costly and difficult manufacture.
 
nairbg said:
AND, it's sooooooooo mechanically elegant!:D
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Yep, right up untill the F#$% thing rips the base of a soft case and jams the next in on top of the neck left in the chamber. (yes I've had this happen, and if you don't happen to have a case extractor handy your day is done) Better be real sure of where your ammo's coming from with delayed blowbacks. Beyond that and a lack of hold open on last shot you can't fault the design, cheap and easy to build with a minimum of machining, almost maintenance free and accurate.

To bad most of us can't own them:mad:
 
Cocked&Locked said:
Yep, right up untill the F#$% thing rips the base of a soft case and jams the next in on top of the neck left in the chamber.
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True enough, but what is it about this design that you think might make this event more likely than with others?
 
Cocked&Locked said:
Beyond that and a lack of hold open on last shot you can't fault the design, cheap and easy to build with a minimum of machining, almost maintenance free and accurate.

To bad most of us can't own them:mad:
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In HK's original sales pamphlets they state exactly why there is no bolt hold open. This was done to increase reliability. This is also the reason why the AK does not have a bolt hold open and the british deleted the bolt hold open from the L1A1. This goes back to WWII when German research found that a bolt hold open allows dirt into the chamber of a rifle during combat. Any particle of dirt in the chamber and the soldiers day is over.
 
Back to the original accuracy question, the difference between the FN and the HK is negligible. Both are great rifles. Easily capable of head shots out to 400. With the military versions, both keep a group the size of about a basketball on automatic at about 20-25 metres (with the proper hold and muscle compensation). As for that roller-delay system, I know that the HK's I've used always stayed much cleaner with minimal cleaning required after firing large amouts of ammo in a short time period. This is not the case when compared to the FN.
 
nairbg said:
True enough, but what is it about this design that you think might make this event more likely than with others?
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The delayed blowback action has a very abrupt, violent extraction cycle compared to a locked breach weapon. The purpose of the flutes in the chamber is to float the case on gas to allow it to extract without ripping in half. If you get soft brass the case will jam in the flutes and pull apart. I've only ever had a case seperate in two rifles, a Lee enfield with reloaded .303, a caliber somewhat notorious for it, and a G3, firing surplus 7.62.

As to a hold open allowing ingress of dirt into the chamber, while the idea is sound, I don't know how much of a problem it is in reality. I think the disadvantage of running dry and having to cycle the action (esp. when the cocking handle is as far forward as on a G3) is more of a liability. Still, lots of countries have used it successfully.......
 
angryeyebrows said:
Back to the original accuracy question, the difference between the FN and the HK is negligible. Both are great rifles. Easily capable of head shots out to 400. With the military versions, both keep a group the size of about a basketball on automatic at about 20-25 metres (with the proper hold and muscle compensation). As for that roller-delay system, I know that the HK's I've used always stayed much cleaner with minimal cleaning required after firing large amouts of ammo in a short time period. This is not the case when compared to the FN.
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I'd give the edge in controllability in FA to the G3, better stock design for it, but really, FA in a 7.62X51 rifle is marginal at the best of times. Your more effective in SA and aiming. If you want FA grab an assault rifle, not a battle rifle.
 
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