Reading wind from inside a building

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MartyK2500

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Today I had the privilege to shoot at a 900yd private range on my friends land.
We we're shooting from inside an old barn as the grass was too high to shoot from the truck bed.
At 650M, I was having a hard time as my kestrel + vane we're having a hard time next to the building.
Managed to get 2/3 of my shots on at least but still, I was aiming for 100%!
Over this we we're also in an unstable/unseated position, which made use of my pint sized game changer and large pillow, get some PRS practice while at it!

In 2 weeks I was going to propose that we shoot outdoors far from the barn to get good and easy wind readings.
And I just retaught about this, and now telling me that certain situations may call for shooting from inside a building and lose use of wind reading devices, ie: coyote hunt from inside the barn this winter.

Is there a way to kick my wind reading skills a notch without the use of a kestrel or any other devices?
Wind flags are also out as the yote won't be standing around for me to set up a flag next to him.
 
You can find charts that describe how different wind speeds move vegetation and change the appearance of mirage. Print some off, laminate and stick them in your range bag.
 
I think that even in the open, wind gradient above the ground and the effect the terrain features down range have make wind reading an art perfected by deliberate personal study. I am torn between spending $1K in a loaded kestrel and carrying it constantly to teach myself the physical cues that various wind speeds give and buying something cool that puts me in open class. I know what I should do. I think seeing the visual cues would help me remember better than reading them.
 
There is a former Queen's Prize winner who regularly posts on this site. I believe it was he who wrote that on any day of his competition days, there would be many dozens of shooters who had similar physical skills - could hold a sight picture and could break the trigger when needed. He feels his advantage, especially that day, was being able to read the wind and the mirage and make the windage calls. I would take that to heart, if you want to "win"... He also described days at Bisley where the wind flags were showing opposite directions through the two valleys that you shot across. Wondering what your kestrel says about that???
 
Keep in mind that your kestrel is telling you what the wind is where you are, which is a very temporary piece of real estate for the bullet to be in. I have been digging into this topic a bit lately and the general consensus among instructors is that students spend a pile of time playing with Kestrels and phones then finally shoot and miss. Then wonder why and spend another 5 minutes on gadgets. Just a suggestion but this is where my head is currently at: perhaps it is better to get any Kestrel off the EE and walk with it. Print off small copies of the references Alpheus mentioned. Look at the grasses and dust, etc, measure the wind. Repeat. Start training yourself to associate movements with wind speeds. Then spend the other money on shooting more. IF your data is entered correctly then your wind holds SHOULD be correct theoretically. Therefore if you miss it should be a bad wind call, make a correction, hit. Shoot shoot shoot Learn from experience.
Take it with a grain of salt. Im not good at wind reading but just a continual student, and this is just some of what I have been taking in.
Cheers!
 
There is a Canadian book on wind reading by Linda Miller and Keith Cunningham. I think it is available on Amazon. Plenty in there about watching the grass, the trees, the clouds, the dust, the other shooters' results, and oh yes, the flags.

In an improvised range, you have a disadvantage of no set distances and no conventional flags. But you are starting off well using a Kestral to tell you how much wind is blowing where you are. That force will always be on the bullet, no matter how much more it flies.
 
You can also work backwards. Figure out your wind hold by shooting, then adjust the wind speed in your kestrel until it matches. There are also some simple formulas you can use to calculate a rough wind reading using your drift, if you don't have a ballistic app.
 
Wow lot's of replies in a short time period thanks for the input all!
Long story short, spent 2 seasons and shot at least 20 times at the 900M line at Connaught, this range is so wide open, that the Kestrel placed at the mound would generally give me my reading I would simply use to shoot.
Remember shooting at the 600M mound in 18-19MPH winds, and with the Kestrel place on a vane with shooting app synced to it with wind direction would still score me 5s (in practice not a match) in such conditions.
Seems like I'll have to learn to read wind the real way now.

Looked at the mirage/vegetation charts suggestion, great idea I got a few printed out and laminated.
Yesterday's mirage was sort of like a 75 degree going almost horizontal, so my 4MPH reading on the kestrel was definitely off in this regard.

emerson, my Kestrel is a 5000 series and is less than half 1K, syncs to bluetooth and has density altitude, and as a previously mentioned, in an environment that allowed it to work well was giving me spot on results.

I couldn't shoot and correct much as I was in deep vegetation (no splash), a very tough shooting position (couldn't spot own trace) and my partners we'Re brand new at this so weren't remembering to check for trace in spotter.
The more I'm looking at charts, the more I realize how much mirage was giving me information yesterday that I was ignoring...
 
Power down your optic. Watch the grass trees and anything else the wind can move.
Having your rifle level at distance is also very important imho.

Practice on those windy and calm days as much as you can. Keep notes
 
This is where I think that my recent .22lr trainer build will come handy.
At the cottage I have the range but cannot make noise because there is livestock not too far.
Yesterday I was shooting a 12'' plate with my .22lr at 330M, it didn't take much for wind to knock my off the plate.
 
MartyK2500 said:
This is where I think that my recent .22lr trainer build will come handy.
At the cottage I have the range but cannot make noise because there is livestock not too far.
Yesterday I was shooting a 12'' plate with my .22lr at 330M, it didn't take much for wind to knock my off the plate.
Click to expand...

I shot a CRPS match with similar targets and shifting wind and missed mostly.
 
The book on wind reading by Linda Miller and Keith Cunningham should be something every precision rifle shooter reads, it's a great asset. Familiarize yourself with what mirage does at different wind speeds/directions and learn to read what the veg is doing.

As others have said, there is a ton that goes into making an accurate wind call in true "field" conditions. Terrain plays a huge effect, both in how it affects the wind as well as in how it affects your ability to spot misses and correct. Shooting over "simple" terrain like an open field, the wind gradient (at the height of your max ord) might only be 10% more, shooting over broken/mountainous etc terrain, it can be 100% more.

If you have regular access to a decent distance (which it sounds like you do), I'm a big advocate of doing a 3 rd wind drill. I do it on a 2/3 IPSC (12" wide) plate at 830 yards with my .308. The idea is to chart the data so you can later analyze it. I'll note the temp and DA as well as the wind speed and direction at my position. I'll then get on glass and make my best determination of what the wind is doing at the target as well as halfway between shooter and target. This is in complex terrain so I have to account for where the bullet will be travelling more so than what is happening at me or the target. Anyways, you note your observations, get on the gun and break your 1st shot, spot impact or miss, correct, send rd 2, then rd 3. I note my initial hold, what I observed and how(or if) I corrected. Ive shot it in every possible condition at different times of the day. It really lets you work on your wind calls as well as give you a much better idea of what your hit probability ACTUALLY is (as in should you be taking that shot if it matters?) at that kinda of distance and target size. It's generally smaller than you would think, haha.

Kestrels are an invaluable tool for a precision rifle shooter but they shouldn't be relied upon was a crutch. Verify that the dope (elevation) that it gives you is good and use it for a starting wind call (if you aren't shooting from a sheltered position) but don't expect it to just give you the correct wind hold. You can carry it around with you day to day as well and check what different wind speeds feel/look like to you.

Reading wind well is the holy grail of precision rifle shooting and I'm pretty confident that it's a lifelong journey to attempt to master it. You'll never quite get there but the journey is a great challenge.
 
Seems like much time needs to be spent hands on to get the feel and look for it.
I am hoping my .22 at 300-350M will help me in this regard, as in centerfire I do not have as much access as I’d wish.
In a big open 900M range, the kestrel had become the perfect crutch, as there we’re very little crosswinds and wind was steady and reliable.

Now this field condition is a kick in the nuts, my challenge level has suddenly rose to a new level!
 
Even at our local 300m range, I shoot better in the field than there. The wind swoops down the berms. Impossible to be very consistent at times.
 
Lead hammer said:
Even at our local 300m range, I shoot better in the field than there. The wind swoops down the berms. Impossible to be very consistent at times.
Click to expand...

I find it helpful to think of the wind like water flowing over the terrain. It helps to visualize how the wind bounces over obstacles and hills creating a dead zone and then drops down after it clears the obstacle.

Wind is never more than a full value for a given wind speed and the trick is to factor in how much less to apply.

As for direction I do like a corrected clock system... not the over simplified military one... Just imagine a plump line hanging from the hour hand on a clock... Where the plump line crosses a line between center and 3 indicating the percent of full value to apply... You can now see that full value is at 3 but half value is not at 1:30... more like 1 o'clock. This helps you visualize the full value to apply and compensate for direction, not considering the water flow concept.

You can now see that a head wind that switches between 11 and 1 is a larger move than a wind that plays from 1 to 5. This means that you focus more on direction of a head wind and more the speed of a cross wind.

If the 10 mph wind is coming from 1 oclock and the plumb line is then half way to 3, you know its half value... now examine the terrain and visualize what obstacles are in the area where the wind is coming from.

Is the wind bouncing over things and creating a dead zone calling for less wind in sheltered areas, or is the area flat and obstacle free where you apply the full 5 mph?

You can now anticipate these up and down drafts as well as speed and what percentage to apply. Updrafts created where the wind hits and obstacle and down drafts when the wind comes past and obstacle.

If you are not exposed to the wind so you can hear and feel the wind, then you need to use mirage and plant movement to determine wind speed, but apply that to the clock system and water flow described in this post.
 
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emerson said:
I think that even in the open, wind gradient above the ground and the effect the terrain features down range have make wind reading an art perfected by deliberate personal study. I am torn between spending $1K in a loaded kestrel and carrying it constantly to teach myself the physical cues that various wind speeds give and buying something cool that puts me in open class. I know what I should do. I think seeing the visual cues would help me remember better than reading them.
Click to expand...

Was trying to surf to the end of YT, and found a video on the French MAS 49/56 which I've long admired. At about the 2:35 mark shows the guy shooting at a small steel and an inset shot of him at the firing point. Watch the vortex curl in onto the targets. Really good illustration of the effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbQslya0mY0&list=TLPQMjUwOTIwMjD_fA5imS_jHQ&index=4
 
MartyK2500 said:
Today I had the privilege to shoot at a 900yd private range on my friends land.
We we're shooting from inside an old barn as the grass was too high to shoot from the truck bed.
At 650M, I was having a hard time as my kestrel + vane we're having a hard time next to the building.
Managed to get 2/3 of my shots on at least but still, I was aiming for 100%!
Over this we we're also in an unstable/unseated position, which made use of my pint sized game changer and large pillow, get some PRS practice while at it!

In 2 weeks I was going to propose that we shoot outdoors far from the barn to get good and easy wind readings.
And I just retaught about this, and now telling me that certain situations may call for shooting from inside a building and lose use of wind reading devices, ie: coyote hunt from inside the barn this winter.

Is there a way to kick my wind reading skills a notch without the use of a kestrel or any other devices?
Wind flags are also out as the yote won't be standing around for me to set up a flag next to him.
Click to expand...

Easiest way is to put up flags and leave them there all year if you are going to be using the barn as a shooting stand.

I do this with flagging tape in large clear cuts that I hunt every year from the same shooting positions, works very well and the the animals do not seem to care.
 
This thread reminds me, two winters ago I had a 2x4 out in the back yard. I drilled small holes in it and put wire stem flags in them. I was experimenting on making different length flags as to be straight out under certain wind conditions. Like a 5,10,and 15 mph flag.
Kida ran out of time to work on it. I was mostly experimenting with length, but I would like to weight instead. Need to get on that again.
 
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