Real rifles vs packaged rifles

[Hornhunter]

Tell me ol’experienced fellows, are the packaged rifles that we read so much about really good rifles? All I read about is how sub MOA these $200.00 to $400.00 rifles are and that price might even include a scope. If it has plastic I tend to look the other way….I just don’t get the cozy feeling from them.

By that I mean, from the old school here, I like the blued and wood rifles like the Browning medallion A-bolts, BLR’s, BBR’S, BAR’S, Winchester M70’s, 88’s, 100’s Remington 700’s, Model 7’s, Ruger 77’s, Savage 99’s, Weatherby’s Mark IV's etc. from back before they made plastic stocks and even stainless barrels on them. All these rifles cost $700.00 >> $1700.00 +/- when they were new in the earliy 80's.

For example how can a used Ruger 77 hold a value of say $600.00 when a person can walk into WSS and get a new plastic Weatherby for about $500.00 with a scope or a Stevens 200 or a Savage Axis or a Tikka T3 that all have reports of being very accurate. That old Ruger 77 should be only worth $20.00, but I would still pay more for it than any plastic rifle. A scratch in a plastic stock is just not the same as a character mark in a Win 94!

I guess there is a place for the cheap packages because it tends to make it more affordable for new hunters/shooters to enter the sport, but how are they affecting to market for what I call the real rifles.

Are there other fellows that shy away from the plastic stocked rifles, or do you just pay your $200.00 >> $400.00 and learn to bragg it up?

 

[jsquig]

What's a Weatherby Mark IV?

 

[Norma]

Like you said, it makes it more affordable for new hunters/shooters to enter the sport. Which is a good thing. More hunters can also now own more then one rifle. Personaly, I dont care for them, I would rather buy an oldie instead.

 

[bearkilr]

The scopes on the package rifles are pretty much worthless, it's the same as getting the free knife on some deals.
There are very good quality synthetic stocks out there, but you won't find them on the package deal guns. Pretty much all these guns have injection molded stocks, in other words junk. The wood stock cheapies aren't much better quality though.

The first gun I ever bought new was a Browning Abolt Stainless Stalker in 300 WinMag when they first came out (late 80's) added a new Leupold VariXII 3-9x40. I got a deal from a friend who owned a gunshop in the US, the package was $1250 US !!! I traded stocks with a friend who had the Medallion and was probably one of the first to own what is now called an A Bolt "White Gold Medallion".

You'll soon get a whole pile of replies to your posts from the Savage crowd, lauding the Stevens 200 and Savage FCXPGHSBGFTJNWEGHFYDN110 package guns and their advantages. My opinion is that they're worth exactly what you pay for them, which isn't much.
It does afford new shooters the ability to own a new rifle. Myself, I'd rather buy older used guns which were made better and cost about the same.

 

[Hornhunter]

What's a Weatherby Mark IV?

Weatherby Mark IV

 

[hawk-i]

Synthetic stocks have an advantage IMO they will not warp with moisture and temp. or split and crack, granted some wood stocks do look very nice and I do own a lot of wood stocked rifles however these days I would not buy a wood stocked rifle (in your words "real rifle") unless it was a laminate. Also stainless again IMO is hands down better than blueing for a hunting rifle unless you live in Arizona. To me a "Real Rifle" would be synthetic stocked with an aluminium bedding block and stainless. Traditional wooden stocked, rich deep blued rifles can be beautiful to look at but the modern synthetic, stainless seem to me, to be better prepared for hard every day hunting.

 

[SkZuk]

My friends and I would be considered youngsters by your standards, I'm guessing. We primarily have newer rifles with plastic stocks. Personal preference on the looks. They fit my budget. Seem to kill stuff juuust fine.

My Weatherby Vanguard .308 didn't come with a scope however. I consider it one notch above something like the Axis that comes packaged with scope.

Do you prefer your 87 Chevy because it doesn't have a plastic dash?

 

[hakx]

Package rifles are often horsetraded for something more substantive as $$ and experience dictate. If your looking for a rifle that goes "boom" and can hit minute of deer over 4 weekends you go out, the package rifle may be the most prudent.

I like Savage / Stevens as they lend themselves to customization. The low end Remingtons, Mossbergs and the like..not so much.

 

[kamlooky]

I can understand your train of thought.
I bought the kid a new Steven's 200 and it shoots well.
She mentioned recoil so up comes a laminate stock for the 308win.
I put a ton of hours into it and she enjoys this rifle.
I will up the trigger for the next modification.
Add it all up and there would of been the value of a nice used Ruger or
an old Mauser 98.
Would I do it again?
Not sure, I think the Vanguard could be a better rifle.
Then they came out with the Savage 111 with the detach mag.
I guess we can live only one day at a time.
I think good used in the old flavors to me is a worthy consideration.
Plus, I like wood.
Cheers.

 

[snood]

I can't believe someone would put a T3 in the same group as an axis. This is a high quality barrel and action as smoth as.... I have one in 300WIN MAG stainless it is pure pleasure to shoot. Paid $600 for it used (not cheap for me). Has a limbsaver recoil pad, and some weight added to the stock. I wouln't mind having a closet full of old or more refined rifles but for now function trumps nostalgia

 

[bearkilr]

I like Savage / Stevens as they lend themselves to customization. The low end Remingtons, Mossbergs and the like..not so much.

The cheap Remingtons, aka SPS, lend themselves very well for customization and many are bought for the action alone. I would have to think the Rem 700 has the most aftermarket parts available of pretty much any bolt action.

 

[west250]

" Are there other fellows that shy away from the plastic stocked rifles, or do you just pay your $200.00 >> $400.00 and learn to bragg it up?"

Sadly I'm a dinosaur as well preferring the blued and wood shooters over the Tupperware variety. To each his own I guess.... I envy the ones that are happy with the package deals - being a wood slut has cost me a fair amount of dough! As for the excuse that stainless and plastic is better for hunting because of wood swelling and the blued barrel rusts - I say poppycock!
Hunting on the 'wet coast' usually involves a bunch of moisture, but after a day out I always dry the firearm off thoroughly, oil the stock and the receiver then put away lovingly. I've yet to have any real issues - sure there's a bit of rust that pops up on an older rifle, but it always buffs off just fine as long as it's not left to sit with moisture on it for extended periods of time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the plastic and stainless variety of rifles (or the inexpensive package deals), but I look at the blued and wood rifles as more of a piece of art - that kills stuff!

 

[Superbrad]

The cheap Remingtons, aka SPS, lend themselves very well for customization and many are bought for the action alone. I would have to think the Rem 700 has the most aftermarket parts available of pretty much any bolt action.

I have a remi 700 sps dm... I prefer detachable mag rifles... It sports a redfield revolution 3-9 x 40... It is not a tack driver but it shoots well... I can shoot a 3-5 inch group at 400 yards with it which is perfect as it's a hunting rifle... If I was out stalking and dropped it and scratched the stock I would call it character... I have an a-bolt my grandfather bought me when I graduated high school with an old school leupold... If I dropped it I would cry...


Bottom line... That axis or rem 770 is everything everyone says about it... Accurate out of the box ... But 3 years from now when it falls apart what will it be worth?... Or... God forbid... It let's you down when you need it most...

 

[hakx]

the cheap remingtons, aka sps, lend themselves very well for customization and many are bought for the action alone. I would have to think the rem 700 has the most aftermarket parts available of pretty much any bolt action.

710 & 770.

No reference to the 700's implied.

 

[dead meat]

At one time Weatherby Mark IV`s were considered gaudy, the kind of rifle a pimp might have used. Personaly i don`t care for the stock design. I do have a couple of synthetic stocks but for pure looks you can`t beat some nice walnut. As for the package rifles i tend to shy away from them as well, I have shot a few and was not impressed with the scope quality. They do serve a purpose and get some new shooters involved that may not want to start with more expensive hardware.

 

[sksavenger]

I can't believe someone would put a T3 in the same group as an axis. This is a high quality barrel and action as smoth as.... I have one in 300WIN MAG stainless it is pure pleasure to shoot. Paid $600 for it used (not cheap for me). Has a limbsaver recoil pad, and some weight added to the stock. I wouln't mind having a closet full of old or more refined rifles but for now function trumps nostalgia

I would put them in the same class. They look similar and from the reports i have saw on here, the axis is as accurate, even though tikka has a "higher quality" barrel

 

[c-fbmi]

The beauty of walnut.

I love nothing more than a beautifully stocked classic pattern rifle, walnut in french or bastogne and a flawless rust blue job, however at the cost of such things I am lothe to take them out and abuse them. Even a nicely stocked factory rifle is exciting to me, doesn't have to be the 4000 dollar custom stock. I love the feel and sound a wood stock makes compared to plastic/fiberglass/kevlar but my "go to" rifle is stainless wrapped in fiberglass. She has seen some pretty extreme hunts and I can't always dry her off and wipe her down with an oily rag every night.
She never changes POI, not ever, from -50 C to +50 C from 100% humidity to 12% humidity. All the little and not so little nicks and dings she gets over the years are fixed up good as new with a little filler and a coat of paint. If by chance the airlines lost or broke her I would not lose a moments sleep over it. She is a tool, nothing more, unlike some of my more beautiful custom stocked and nice factory stocked rifles (safe queens) that I shoot and sometimes day hunt with. Losing one of these would bring me (or somebody) to tears. You can never replace a wood stocked rifle because every piece of wood is unique, and irreplaceable. Not so with my 300, she can be replaced in a heartbeat, and all my Queens will be safe at home snuggled in the vault.

 

[sksavenger]

The scopes on the package rifles are pretty much worthless, it's the same as getting the free knife on some deals.
There are very good quality synthetic stocks out there, but you won't find them on the package deal guns. Pretty much all these guns have injection molded stocks, in other words junk. The wood stock cheapies aren't much better quality though.

The first gun I ever bought new was a Browning Abolt Stainless Stalker in 300 WinMag when they first came out (late 80's) added a new Leupold VariXII 3-9x40. I got a deal from a friend who owned a gunshop in the US, the package was $1250 US !!! I traded stocks with a friend who had the Medallion and was probably one of the first to own what is now called an A Bolt "White Gold Medallion".

You'll soon get a whole pile of replies to your posts from the Savage crowd, lauding the Stevens 200 and Savage FCXPGHSBGFTJNWEGHFYDN110 package guns and their advantages. My opinion is that they're worth exactly what you pay for them, which isn't much.
It does afford new shooters the ability to own a new rifle. Myself, I'd rather buy older used guns which were made better and cost about the same.

Made better LMFAO. I happen to have a mighty Browning A-bolt medallion. A beutiful looking rifle. That is until the "high quality" wood warped on the forend and is now tight against the barrel. Which doesnt affect its performance because my savages have all been able to outshoot it, even before it went to sh!t. And the cheap white metal sh!t browning used on the hinged floorplates on those rifles was a joke...and an expensive joke to replace. And before you start the rant on how i must store my guns in poor conditions for the wood to warp....it shares a room with many other wood stocks of different makes (including Savage) that havent warped

 

[Superbrad]

Made better LMFAO. I happen to have a mighty Browning A-bolt medallion. A beutiful looking rifle. That is until the "high quality" wood warped on the forend and is now tight against the barrel. Which doesnt affect its performance because my savages have all been able to outshoot it, even before it went to sh!t. And the cheap white metal sh!t browning used on the hinged floorplates on those rifles was a joke...and an expensive joke to replace. And before you start the rant on how i must store my guns in poor conditions for the wood to warp....it shares a room with many other wood stocks of different makes (including Savage) that havent warped

I have an a-bolt that is 19 years old now... If it weren't for the fact the action is broken in you would think it was new

 

[Redlich]

haha... weatherby mark 4