Real world perceived recoil vs "the charts"

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As someone who is interested in getting into a magnum or perhaps a medium bore rifle I keep reading how many people prefer the recoil of say for one example a 375 h&h over that of a 300 win mag.
I realize stock fit and overall weight play a significant role but for arguments sake let's say they are approximately the same.
Just curious to hear from members here and there opinion/experience.
My experience has been with the 30-06,7mm class to 45-70 and do not find them to be particularly objectionable.
 
Couldn't believe the recoil of a Tika t3 lite in 3006. Made my lee enfield seem tame....

Your 100% right about about weight of rifle contributing to felt recoil.
 
Not exactly an answer to the question, but my approach to recoil has always been that, if I look around and see literally thousands of people who have obviously learned to shoot a particular cartridge, I expect I can learn to use it effectively too. Recoil "tolerance" is more about proper shooting technique than it is about any specific level of recoil from a particular cartridge. So my advice is to learn to shoot with the techniques necessary to "ignore" whatever level of recoil you will get from any cartridge, and then practice enough that you don't need to think about recoil when you shoot. You are correct that the rifle itself will be important to how easy it is to ignore the recoil, but anyone who wants to can learn to shoot any cartridge commonly used for big game hunting if they so desire.

So, decide what level of performance you need/want from a cartridge and then learn to shoot it well. You can, if you want to. If you don't really want to learn to shoot heavy magnums, don't bother, because almost all hunting in Alberta can be done with cartridges that no one thinks are hard to shoot well because of their recoil levels.
 
Recoil perception is in your head. Ever notice how people get used to recoil with time? Nothing much changed except the shooter discovered that it wasn't that big of a deal in the first place. When a rifle can barely muster up the energy to bounce on a sandbag and never left a mark on you it's silly to pretend that it was some sort of near death experience

A .375 recoils about double a 30-06 or 7 Rem. Nothing much is going to change that; it's going to move you around a smidge.
The question is after the shot do you:

A) Sit there and feel your sprit shrivel and die inside you as the humiliation of being both beaten and broken sink in.

B) Rip the rest of the magazine off rapid fire; shout " Whoooooooo.......fricken awesome did cha see that? I'd hate to be on the other end of this thing, too bad I only have 4 boxes with me but I should be able to get home and load them and make it back before dark."

Some people are intimidated by recoil and others actually enjoy it. Perception is everything.
 
Recoil although physical is in your head. For instance my 458 wm has left several shooters scared. Those were all ppl that say i shoot a so and so and never flinch. When that scope hits them their world is rocked. On the other hand ive let shooters with very little expérience try it. I tell them to hold tight and let the muzzle rise and roll with the hit. Not a single newby has been hurt by it. After the first shot the reaction is wow that wasnt as bad as i though.
Some ppl just cant take recoil. No ryme or reason. I have a buddy thats 6'4" 240 lbs solid muscle that wont shoot a 12 ga because of recoil. Shoots a 44 mag revolver one handed. On the other side i shoot with a lovely tall thin blonde shes 6' and 107 lbs tiny frame and she shoots my 4570 with marlin loads in a 7 lb sxs and shoots 1-1:8 oz 3dram trap loads all day long. Turkey loads dont fiz her either
I think you can learn to shoot anything well if you put the time and effort in it and dont think about it
 
Some guns seem to have more felt recoil than others, The one that gives me the hardest punch is a 30-30, Win94. It doesn't make sense, other 30-30's aren't bad at all, except for this particular one. I have no idea why this one kicks like a mule.
 
Mastering heavy bore rifle recoil is great fun. Once you've made good progress in this endeavor at the range through practice (which amounts to becoming desensitized) you won't notice recoil in the field.

Physical stature plays a role. First video is me firing my 458 WM. 2nd video (FF to 1:20 & 2:15) is an individual of more diminutive stature firing her 458 WM. Note the difference in effect. :)


 
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There is also the recoil velocity that plays a part. As Dogleg mentions, the 375 H&H is about double the recoil of a 30-06, but the velocity is not significantly faster (especially if the rifle is on the heavy side) which changes the way you perceive recoil. The shooting world has long maintained that anyone who can shoot a standard 30-06 sporting rifle can shoot a 375 equally as well for precisely that reason...it doesn't feel as bad.

Now if you take a rifle like the Browning A-Bolt that tends to have a narrow recoil pad and is a tad on the lighter side, then you have a whole other animal which is why people like roscoenow (for example) talk about rifles like his T3 Lite being so unpleasant in an otherwise manageable chambering. Were he to shoot my Sako L61R which is also in 30-06, he would think he was shooting something entirely different.

Just because they're the same doesn't mean they're the same.
 
The Brits did a study way back when that concluded that recoil energy exceeding 15 ft lbs would cause a flinch in most shooters if fired repeatedly, as in a service rifle. Most of today's service rifles are either small calibre/low energy or fairly heavy.
SAAMI website has a formula for calculating rifle recoil, you simply feed in the numbers and it tells you what you can expect when you squeeze the trigger.
It doesn't factor in stock fit or design of course, but it will give you raw numbers.
Common sense tells you that rifle X, firing a 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps will recoil exactly twice as hard as the same rifle firing a 75 grain bucket at the same velocity. Simple physics at work.

Higher velocity means a faster recoil, but two different calibers with the same muzzle energy will deliver the same energy to your shoulder, the slower velocity round will be more of a shove than a smack.
 
To be perfect honest (not macho), I know there is a vast paper difference between a 100 grain from a .243 and a 300 grain from a .375, but I honestly don't think about it or consciously register it... they both bump you and then you jack the next one in... but I do recognize that it is an issue for some. Last fall I helped a friend get set-up for a new deer hunting group, he is a big boy and a .30/06 gave him other options... but within half a dozen shots he was scared of the rifle and shooting pie-plate groups in every which direction, following which we did some mental therapy and adjusted his loads for the under 100 yard deer hunting he would be doing... his first round back at the range, he forgot to take the safety off and when he yanked the trigger and the muzzle swung all the way over into the side of the shooting port... out came the loads and dry fire practice started, and then blind loading... it was a chore, but we got him down to 2-3 inches consistently, without flinching.
 
Big bore heavy caliber rifles are never pleasant to shoot from a bench....for anyone. However all it requires is absolute focus and the realization that it will not cause any real or lasting damage. When I bench rifles with muzzle energies exceeding 5000 ft/lbs like my 470 NE, 375 and 378 Wbys, 9.3X300 WM, 416 Rigby and a few more, I find it best to keep the session down to 20-25 rounds in an afternoon. Interspersed with lighter more pleasant cartridges to bench. The lighter cartridge rifles will also let you know if you're having a twitchy day and maybe starting to flinch. No one is immune to flinching, it can happen to all of us and particularly from the bench. I know I have rock solid nerveless days and I have jumpy twitchy days....on jumpy twitchy days it's best to stay with the lighter calibers and FOCUS.
One thing I do know is that once I have a heavy sighted in and a good load worked, I seldom bench it again. I also know that I never feel nor hear my rifle go off when shooting game, so it's not likely I'm jumping the trigger or anticipating recoil (flinching) either. Rifles like my double 470 are a lot of fun to shoot when standing on your hind legs. Recoil rolls you around but is not painful or unpleasant, velocity is only 2160 fps with a 500 gn bullet. When the Rigby is loaded to potential it is bordering on ugly and is not pleasant with a 400 gn bullet at 2600 fps. I haven't done enough with my 378 to really give a good opinion yet. I think It could be a bit of a "yelper", what I have done hasn't been particularly bad but I haven't tried max loads with the 325 gn bullets yet.
Generally speaking, I guess heavy recoil and some folks just don't go well together. I don't believe everyone can overcome it, most I think can but just like a boxer with a glass jaw, some things we just can't control. I think it has a lot to do with how a guy/gal is wired and whether they are fairly stoic or pretty high strung. As has already been said here, I do know recoil sensitivity or lack thereof has absolutely nothing to do with physical stature.
 
I'm one that isn't a fan of heavy recoil and the same caliber in different rifles can feel much different, and not just due to weight. I've injured my shoulder before and that certainly matters over the long term. I found that when shooting, if something is feeling a little sore, stop. Otherwise a nasty flinch is going to develop for sure.
 
Another part of the felt recoil equation is stock design. As an example consider my Brno 602 .375 Ultra. Before it failed, I used the factory stock with the low comb that made shooting with irons seem very natural. Later, I switched to the McMillan Express stock, which for a rifle that spent as much time in the outdoors as that one did, was arguably a better choice. To give some context of recoil, where I could hold my .416 Rigby for 3 rounds prone, before losing concentration, some might say consciousnesses, I could hold the Ultra prone for 5. The rifle was set up for use with a scout scope, but I also had a Talley ghost ring that I intended to use as a backup sight, and this arrangement with the McMillan required me to mash my cheek down hard on the comb. I decided after changing the stock that I should verify the ghost ring zero with the new stock since it held my head was in a different position. I was shooting 280 gr Grand Slams loaded over case fulls of H-4831, and let me tell you, with hard contact between my cheek and the stock, to describe the sensation as unpleasant, doesn't really do it justice. It was all I could do to fire that 3rd round. If I faced a choice of a mauling by a polar bear and having to shoot it with that rifle with the ghost ring, it wouldn't be a clear cut decision.



 
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I would describe myself as not particularly recoil sensitive. I have shot 338, 375, and 458 from the bench and hunted Fairly extensively with the 375. I agree with most that in the field I have never noticed either recoil or noise. The rifle that I found the hardest kicking was a 30-06. It was a BSA featherweight. It was very light and small; it looked like an overgrown 22. It had an ineffective muzzle brake but oddly a small Bakelite butt plate -no recoil pad. It was wonderful to carry. I had not shot it much until I re-scoped it. I had trouble zeroing it and went through a lot of rounds doing so. That was it for me. The next day I couldn't lift my right arm above shoulder height and had a terrible bruise. That went along with the pounding headache from the ear-splitting report from each shot that seemed to go through the the foam earplugs undiminished. Towards the end of the sighting-in session I reckon that the noise blast and hammer blows were giving me a first-class flinching lesson. I sold it shortly after.
I'm sure it was the very light weight and small stature, short LOP stock that made it such a terror. To this day I dislike muzzle brakes and am weary of super lightweight rifles in medium or heavier calibers. It probably would have been a fabulous rifle in 243 or 257 Roberts.
 
Dr. Gonzo said:
I would describe myself as not particularly recoil sensitive. I have shot 338, 375, and 458 from the bench and hunted Fairly extensively with the 375. I agree with most that in the field I have never noticed either recoil or noise. The rifle that I found the hardest kicking was a 30-06. It was a BSA featherweight. It was very light and small; it looked like an overgrown 22. It had an ineffective muzzle brake but oddly a small Bakelite butt plate -no recoil pad. It was wonderful to carry. I had not shot it much until I re-scoped it. I had trouble zeroing it and went through a lot of rounds doing so. That was it for me. The next day I couldn't lift my right arm above shoulder height and had a terrible bruise. That went along with the pounding headache from the ear-splitting report from each shot that seemed to go through the the foam earplugs undiminished. Towards the end of the sighting-in session I reckon that the noise blast and hammer blows were giving me a first-class flinching lesson. I sold it shortly after.
I'm sure it was the very light weight and small stature, short LOP stock that made it such a terror. To this day I dislike muzzle brakes and am weary of super lightweight rifles in medium or heavier calibers. It probably would have been a fabulous rifle in 243 or 257 Roberts.
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I have one too, funny you say that, side by side with a 1022 its only 2" longer althugh mine has no muzzle brake and a receiver sight. I have an aftermarket leather buttpad which helps but you sure know when you touch one off. A great carry often, shoot little rifle for sure.
 
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I recently took 2 rifles chambered in 30-06 to the range to sight in. One is a stainless/synthetic Marlin XL7, the other a classic walnut Parker Hale. Both are scoped. The XL7 weighs in at about 7 pounds. The PH weighs in at about 8.5 pounds. The difference in felt recoil was significant. I too am not a fan of lightweight rifles in the meaningful calibers.
 
I am not a fan of recoil, never was. But to me when firing off a bench the felt recoil is more pronounced because of your position and your anticipating it. For many years the biggest calibres I had was a 30-06 and a 12 ga. shotgun so that was my normal felt recoil. And like many have mentioned I also neither feel the recoil or hear the report while shooting at game. I had a chance to fire many calibres and rifles at a friend's place. To my surprise a 375 H&H with 260 gr Nolser Partions to me is no different than a 12 ga. with a 1 1/4oz. 1330 fps duck load. Sort of a big push. I thought it was actually pleasant to shoot. And I have shot hundreds of 12 ga duck loads so maybe my brain is used to that.
The very worst recoil I have ever experienced was c-fbmi's 300 RUM in Rem 700. That thing was just pure, evil, explosive violence. Very sharp violent recoil. His 470 NE was a pussy cat compared to it.
In my opinion it's all what you can personally tolerate and have grown accustomed to, and still able to shoot the rifle comfortably and accurately.
 
As boomer said stock design is a significant factor. I find a lot more felt recoil from the classic style stock like the ruger than a Monte Carlo like Rem or Weatherby. The material of the stock is a factor. A "good" synthetic like the Brown pounder or the wildcat also absorb recoil compared to the injection molded stock. This is my observation and may be dependent on my build.
 
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