Realistic 100 Yard Accuracy

The mechanical accuracy of the rifle does not change whether it is rimfire or centerfire. An Anschutz that can shoot into a one moa could do so at 100 yards if you were shooting it in one of those enclosed ranges they have in Germany. The round has a low ballistic coefficient. This to me is an advantage to learning to shoot at extended ranges.

I have an F-Class rifle and our range is 600 yards. Fire a five shot group walk down change targets walk back. Takes forever. Rimfire I can shoot at 100 yards watch the conditions decide on my hold fire, score without even moving off the mound.
 


This is the best group to date at our 100 meter rimfire shoot.
There was some wind and the shooter said it could not be done without wind flags.
Eley Match and a Anschutz barreled action in a custom stock.
The group measured 0.602 c-c.
 
-Doug- said:
Debating on making a .22 precision build but debating if bumping up to a .223 would be better for the wind.
Don't want to invest money and still end up disappointed with the limitations of the .22lr.


Doug
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It depends what's you're after?

If you simply want to shoot tiny groups at 100 yards, it will be much easier with a centerfire. (or a 17HMR)

If you want to practice dealing with the wind, a 22lr is hard to beat. The 22lr will force you to be more acute to little change in the breeze... changes that you probably wouldn't have noticed if you were shooting something with more punch/speed
 
Mystic Precision said:
View attachment 256375

100yds, Savage MKII, Athlon Ares ETR. Started life as a FV and was restocked. Some TLC applied but factory barreled action. Testing new ammo for this season. This is SK ammo sorted.... 5rds. Conditions were mid to strong gusty and switchy winds. I just waited for my flag to point in one direction and let this group fly.

View attachment 256376

And then the wind changed ... still plenty good for the intended use. For CRPS/Action Rifle Rimfire, I am ok with 1" or better at 100yds... what I care more is how it shoots out to 200 to 300m.

Jerry

View attachment 256377
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Nice groups.
 
sillymike said:
It depends what's you're after?

If you simply want to shoot tiny groups at 100 yards, it will be much easier with a centerfire. (or a 17HMR)
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Tiny groups may well be easy with hand loaded centerfire. But the 17HMR is no panacea. It is not a target round. Unlike .22LR ammo, there is no match ammo for 17HMR. MV spread can be quite high for the tiny bullet. Wind drift is a serious factor with the 17HMR as well. While a SV .22LR round drifts 4.69" at 100 yards in a 10mph crosswind, the 17HMR (17g) round drifts 3.17".
 
grauhanen said:
At the risk of sounding obtuse, what does the above statement mean?
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What he's saying is that a good quality rimfire rifle will be just as accurate as a good quality centerfire rifle. The reasons rimfire are inaccurate are inconsistent ammo (which can be improved by buying better quality ammo) and lower ballistic coefficient (so wind has greater impact).

This can actually be a *good* thing, as it lets you simulate shooting much further distances. A 22LR at 300m is similar in terms of wind drift to a .308 at ~1000m. (Exact range dependent on the specific .308 bullet.)
 
willyqbc said:
pretty interested in this topic as I am currently testing a bunch of different ammo in a new MKii BV, and I have a question for you folks more knowledgeable about rimfire than I

i shot five 10 shot groups at 50m then five more 10 shot groups at 100M from each brand

so far the lapua center x is the clear winner

50M avg groups size .526", best group .368"

100M avg group size 1.350", best group .995"

so my question....is it worth spending $100's more to buy some eley match, eley tenex, lapua midas, lapua x-act etc.....or is it likely this is about topped out for a non custom factory rifle?

OH....and is the "standard" for rimfire groups usually for 5 or 10 shots?

Thnx for any input!
Chris
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Chris the guys using Center X never made winners circle shooting anshutz walthers but they do now using Midas + & R-50
 
Cbf123 said:
What he's saying is that a good quality rimfire rifle will be just as accurate as a good quality centerfire rifle. The reasons rimfire are inaccurate are inconsistent ammo (which can be improved by buying better quality ammo) and lower ballistic coefficient (so wind has greater impact).

This can actually be a *good* thing, as it lets you simulate shooting much further distances. A 22LR at 300m is similar in terms of wind drift to a .308 at ~1000m. (Exact range dependent on the specific .308 bullet.)
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To say a good rimfire rifle and a good centerfire rifle are equally accurate can be easily taken too far. It is true "better quality ammo" can improve accuracy, but what that "better quality ammo" really is can't be quantified by price. In other words, match ammo that is more expensive doesn't necessarily produce better accuracy than match ammo that costs less. The factors that make for rimfire accuracy are a little harder to pin down.

Furthermore, .22LR accuracy has its limits. The round is ideally suited for 50 yards or meters, and beyond this point accuracy expectations must decline rather significantly. Although good accuracy can be achieved under good conditions at 100 yards or meters, it should not be viewed as an everyday occurrence or an expectation that can be easily met. At 100 yards/meters a .22LR shooter shouldn't be surprised to see groups that are three times the size of groups at half the distance. In other words, a .25" group at 50 yards/meters is regularly 0.75" at 100 yards/meters.

With regard to wind drift, the .22LR bullet will experience the same drift as if he were shooting a .308 at a little more than twice the distance. The following chart illustrates this clearly. But the similarity in wind drift that can be noted doesn't mean that the accuracy will be comparable.



It is important to keep in mind that at half the distance of the .308, a .22LR shooter cannot reasonably expect the same level of accuracy even when using rifles of good quality. In other words, at 300 yards a good .308 should be easier to shoot MOA than a good .22LR at 150 yards.
 
Minute of starling. Never shot much paper but lived on a farm a few years. Had a savge mark II i would take balck bids with every day at 75 to 110 yards with ease.
 
Great chart comparing the effect of wind on a 22 long rifle.

Similar to what I have read but 1 mph of wind at 50 yards is a 1/10th of an inch and 0.25" at 100.

As to 10 mph of wind it is difficult to get that as a constant and even with wind flags there is a lot of guesswork with the .22 long rifle.
 
grauhanen said:
To say a good rimfire rifle and a good centerfire rifle are equally accurate can be easily taken too far. It is true "better quality ammo" can improve accuracy, but what that "better quality ammo" really is can't be quantified by price. In other words, match ammo that is more expensive doesn't necessarily produce better accuracy than match ammo that costs less. The factors that make for rimfire accuracy are a little harder to pin down.

Furthermore, .22LR accuracy has its limits. The round is ideally suited for 50 yards or meters, and beyond this point accuracy expectations must decline rather significantly. Although good accuracy can be achieved under good conditions at 100 yards or meters, it should not be viewed as an everyday occurrence or an expectation that can be easily met. At 100 yards/meters a .22LR shooter shouldn't be surprised to see groups that are three times the size of groups at half the distance. In other words, a .25" group at 50 yards/meters is regularly 0.75" at 100 yards/meters.

With regard to wind drift, the .22LR bullet will experience the same drift as if he were shooting a .308 at a little more than twice the distance. The following chart illustrates this clearly. But the similarity in wind drift that can be noted doesn't mean that the accuracy will be comparable.



It is important to keep in mind that at half the distance of the .308, a .22LR shooter cannot reasonably expect the same level of accuracy even when using rifles of good quality. In other words, at 300 yards a good .308 should be easier to shoot MOA than a good .22LR at 150 yards.
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For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert...

To assume accuracy will disintegrate past 100 meters is an absurdity. I have produced plenty of groups smaller than a pop can at 300 yards. If conditions are calm... or just plain steady this is not an outrageous expectation with decent ammo.

Obviously high power stuff is less affected by wind, so the 22 LR is not going to outperform it ballistically, but that does not mean there is an arbitrarily imposed limit to which the round can be effective.

The only real limitation is the consistency of velocity... eventually the ES will get you but 4 inches of vertical at 300 yards is not unreasonable.... and most centerfire guys cannot shoot 4 inch groups at 300 yards.

Those who think something cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
 
Maple57 said:
For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert...

To assume accuracy will disintegrate past 100 meters is an absurdity. I have produced plenty of groups smaller than a pop can at 300 yards. If conditions are calm... or just plain steady this is not an outrageous expectation with decent ammo.

Obviously high power stuff is less affected by wind, so the 22 LR is not going to outperform it ballistically, but that does not mean there is an arbitrarily imposed limit to which the round can be effective.

The only real limitation is the consistency of velocity... eventually the ES will get you but 4 inches of vertical at 300 yards is not unreasonable.... and most centerfire guys cannot shoot 4 inch groups at 300 yards.

Those who think something cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
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You are not the only one "doing it..."

Four decades of shooting rimfire has proven, with sufficient certainty for me, that rimfire accuracy is less linear as distance increases than is centerfire. Given that there are fewer controllable factors with regard to the ammunition, this makes sense. YMMV, but this is my belief based on actual measured groups (not the highly precise "pop can" groups) in all conditions over a four decades of shooting.
 
hoytcanon said:
You are not the only one "doing it..."

Four decades of shooting rimfire has proven, with sufficient certainty for me, that rimfire accuracy is less linear as distance increases than is centerfire. Given that there are fewer controllable factors with regard to the ammunition, this makes sense. YMMV, but this is my belief based on actual measured groups (not the highly precise "pop can" groups) in all conditions over a four decades of shooting.
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So you are comparing the girl next door to a #### star?

Obviously center fire will out perform rim fire.... It's not a fair comparison.... at the same distance...

What might be more fair is to consider centerfire at a distance that correlates to 33 MOA of drop to 22LR distance that equate to 33 MOA of drop, for example.

That incorporates the effects of similar velocity fluctuations at least as well as similar time of flight.
 
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Hi all, this is my 2 cents worth.
With my Remington M540XR Target with Weaver Classic 8 to 24X scope. This is the result I can usually expect from it at 100 meters on a calm day, with good match ammo. An occasional one hole groupe is also possible. 22LR shooting at long range is a challenge but good practice.DSCN0999.jpgDSCN1005.jpgDSCN1013.jpg
 

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Maple57 said:
So you are comparing the girl next door to a #### star?

Obviously center fire will out perform rim fire.... It's not a fair comparison.... at the same distance...

What might be more fair is to consider centerfire at a distance that correlates to 33 MOA of drop to 22LR distance that equate to 33 MOA of drop, for example.

That incorporates the effects of similar velocity fluctuations at least as well as similar time of flight.
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Apparently you missed my point of relativity, which takes all of those factors into consideration... shooting for groups at "relative" long distance for both rimfire and centerfire, reveals the non-linear disparity between the two (at relative distances).
 
Maple57 said:
For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert...

To assume accuracy will disintegrate past 100 meters is an absurdity. I have produced plenty of groups smaller than a pop can at 300 yards. If conditions are calm... or just plain steady this is not an outrageous expectation with decent ammo.

Obviously high power stuff is less affected by wind, so the 22 LR is not going to outperform it ballistically, but that does not mean there is an arbitrarily imposed limit to which the round can be effective.

The only real limitation is the consistency of velocity... eventually the ES will get you but 4 inches of vertical at 300 yards is not unreasonable.... and most centerfire guys cannot shoot 4 inch groups at 300 yards.

Those who think something cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
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Please don't let anyone interrupt you from doing it. In fact, since you say you are doing it, why not post a target that shows multiple groups with MOA accuracy at 200 yards? That ought to put an end to the question. Do not post one group that was the result of a happy, if unrepeatable, set of circumstances, a random act of accuracy, as it were. If you can do that those who are contrarians will have to eat their proverbial hats. Do yourself a favour and let readers see you back up MOA accuracy at 200 and 300 yards.
 
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