Realistic 100 Yard Accuracy

[Mystic Precision]

Mystic Precision

Nice shooting. How did you bed the action?

Just like any other bolt rifle. Just keep an eye if there is a gap under the pillars the mounting bolts go into. Add some shim to fill and stop any action bending when the action bolts are tightened.

All standard stuff...

Jerry

 

[Maple57]

Please don't let anyone interrupt you from doing it. In fact, since you say you are doing it, why not post a target that shows multiple groups with MOA accuracy at 200 yards? That ought to put an end to the question. Do not post one group that was the result of a happy, if unrepeatable, set of circumstances, a random act of accuracy, as it were. If you can do that those who are contrarians will have to eat their proverbial hats. Do yourself a favour and let readers see you back up MOA accuracy at 200 and 300 yards.

Hold your horses there skippy…

I stated pop can at 300 yards... I never said anything about 1 MOA at 200 yards, but in calm wind I've done that often enough.

A pop can is actually more like 5 inches high... a little more like 1.5 MOA at 300 yards but it is actually a little less than 1 MOA wide.

Next time I'm out at the farm I'll record some vids.

 

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

I think if a 22 can hold MOA at 100M you are having a good day.

It isn't the gun that is the limitation it is the ammo and the wind as many experts here have stated.

I have had my vudoo out at 100 a few times. I have a 10rd group at .9640, there are 6 of them probably in a .5 inch group but some dropped out of the group and that is with Midas+ but I think that is just the way it goes.

I was out more recently and there was a decent wind and the vertical was probably 3/4" or less but the horizontal was about 1.1"

I can't really see maintaining MOA past 100 with a 22 with any sort of real consistency.

I have shot it at 300M and you can have the exact same hold and one shot will hit the target and the next will be 3 inches low. There is a reason why the CRPS long distance gongs are generous in size.

 

[grauhanen]

Hold your horses there skippy…

I haven't suggested you're a millennial, so please don't call me skippy. It's a pejorative term meant to imply that I'm inexperienced and I don't appreciate that. My comments are not meant to be personal; don't make yours.

If you cant shoot, then you need a center fire at 200, but it probably wont help, because well... you cant shoot.

If you can shoot, then a gopher is in serious danger out to 300 yards in calm conditions with a 22... you just need to train that way and have a good target turret scope so you can dial the 40 ish MOA youll need.

In winds under about 8 MPH, you can still do fairly well from a good solid position... assuming you can dope the wind or have good ballistic data handy.

The claim is made that gophers can be shot out to 300 yards with a .22LR, presuming that a shooter trains that way. Do you shoot them regularly at 300 yards with a .22LR? A one-time only event does not back up the assertion.

I stated pop can at 300 yards... I never said anything about 1 MOA at 200 yards, but in calm wind I've done that often enough.

A pop can is actually more like 5 inches high... a little more like 1.5 MOA at 300 yards but it is actually a little less than 1 MOA wide.

Next time I'm out at the farm I'll record some vids.

You say you can shoot 1.5 MOA out to 300 yards with a .22LR. That's quite an assertion. Can this be backed up with targets? If not that would be inconvenient.

My comments in red below.

For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert...

To assume accuracy will disintegrate past 100 meters is an absurdity. I have produced plenty of groups smaller than a pop can at 300 yards. If conditions are calm... or just plain steady this is not an outrageous expectation with decent ammo. Accuracy with a .22LR diminishes past 100 meters. There's no way around it. Simply insisting that it remains consistent out to 300 meters is folly and no doubt the result of callowness.

Obviously high power stuff is less affected by wind, so the 22 LR is not going to outperform it ballistically, but that does not mean there is an arbitrarily imposed limit to which the round can be effective. What is meant by "effective"? It's not synonymous with accurate.

The only real limitation is the consistency of velocity... eventually the ES will get you but 4 inches of vertical at 300 yards is not unreasonable.... and most centerfire guys cannot shoot 4 inch groups at 300 yards. Perhaps this claim is the result of mistakenly extrapolating the limitations of .22LR results for good CF results. Sub-MOA accuracy at 300 yards with a good centerfire rifle, ammo, and shooter should not be unrealistic. Sub-MOA accuracy at 300 yards with a .22LR is much, much less likely, regardless of rifle, shooter, and ammo. That's not to say it can never happen, but rather that it is so unusual to be quite remarkable.

Those who think something cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. Do it. Shoot good targets at 200 and 300 yards/meters and post them. Otherwise people will assume you're blowing hot air.

 

[Eagleye]

I also want to see some 200 and 300 yard groups with the 22 rimfire.
I know what 22 can/cannot do. Grauhanen knows of which he speaks.
Dave.

 

[m12man]

Enough with the 200 and 300 yd. bull####, put the targets up!!!!

 

[hoytcanon]

Hold your horses there skippy... I stated pop can at 300 yards... I never said anything about 1 MOA at 200 yards...

I will enjoy seeing your 5 shot "pop can" groups at 300 yards...

 

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

This is the Ruger RPR sub moa at 100 all over again....

 

[Got Juice?]

I used to know this crazy old Scottsman, he fought in the Spanish Civil War, WW2 and Korea, also took part in a couple of post colonial brawls, As a young man I asked him what the best way to learn long distance shooting was, he told me that there is nothing that you can learn about shooting a rifle at long range, that you can't learn shooting a .22 lr at 100 and 200 yards.

Seems like there’s fewer numbers of gophers than when I was a kid, haven’t gone for probably a decade specifically varmint hunting, got juice is making me think I should get out there this year!

I also want to see some 200 and 300 yard groups with the 22 rimfire.
I know what 22 can/cannot do. Grauhanen knows of which he speaks.
Dave.

Done regularly here. Not always a 1 shot K... depending on wind and ground heat, it sometimes takes 2 or 3 rounds to get your corrections at that range. That being said, I personally don't stretch much further than 240 yds. As the afternoon wears on, the ammunition heats up, gun is also warmer, as is the ground, and the ability to make those shots decreases.

It's all relative Sometimes atmospherics are inyour favour, sometimes they are not. When they are not, don't push it.

 

[JBD]

Some 22 LR guns are very accurate. I have shot many at extended ranges however the ballistic coefficient and the velocity are very low so in gets pushed around by the wind a lot more than a centerfire. I ran it through a ballistics calculator and a 22 lr 40 grain standard velocity would be pushed 5.21 inches at 100 yards by a 10 mph wind. A gentle breeze. The same breeze would only push a match grade 308 by .73 inches.

So realistic 22lr 100 yards expectations depends heavily on the wind conditions.

 

[sillymike]

This is the Ruger RPR sub moa at 100 all over again....

Come, I've shot many 1/4'' (actual group size) out to about 300M with my 22lr...

Mind you
- They were 1 shot group (but hey! They say one-shot-one-kill... that's ok, right?)
- As the range increase, it might take me more than one shot to hit the target (But hey! The artillery and mortar guys get to have sighters... so why shouldn't I?)
- The one-shot-group might not be centered on target, but that's where I was aiming anyway... (That's where the shot landed, right?)

 

[TheNatural21]

I didn't read all 8 pages, but in response to the OP...

I have recently started shooting longer distances with the .22lr's. I don't have any of the high end (expensive) stuff. Savage B22 with CCI Standard averaged 1.6" at 100m for 6 5 round groups last time I was out. Marlin 795 usually averages more like 2" with same ammo. I've shot subMOA groups with the Marlin but mostly dumb luck; never shot several consecutive ones. The Marlin also shoots most ammo about the same, even the expensive stuff. I have more hope for the Savage B22... nearly all of the spread was vertical so I'm hoping a higher quality ammo with more consistent velocity will tighten things up. Haven't gotten a chance to test yet though.

I also have shot some .22's that couldn't hit a pie plate at 100. I don't think that's what you're interested in hearing about though.

 

[easyrider604]

Hey all I just started playing around at 100 yards with the .22 and I'm wondering what everyone is getting for groupings.

I am finding that I can't keep a constant zero in the slightest of wind conditions.
I realize that a lot of it could be operator error however I was just curious what you guys/girls are getting.

Debating on making a .22 precision build but debating if bumping up to a .223 would be better for the wind.
Don't want to invest money and still end up disappointed with the limitations of the .22lr.

Would be interested if anyone does any long range stuff with their .22 and what there experience has been. Thanks

Doug

My short answer is yes, you can achieve 1 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 meters with a decent .22lr rifle and cheap bulk, but that will not happen with all day consistency. I’m probably the king of cheap, that’s why I like .22lr and will never strive for better groups if it will mean trading up to Anschutz or spending on match ammo.

On a bright, very calm morning, when you are fully rested, you’re on the upcycle of your bio-rhythm, with ammo from a rare batch of bulk Winchester Dynapoint standard velocity, a little bit of good overall shooting technique and a great example of Savage or CZ flavoured rifle on sandbags front and rear, and needless to say a lot of good luck, karma or what have you....yes you can score 1 MOA. I’d say 3 out of 5.

Too bad I did not think it was a big deal at the moment back in ‘09 or ‘10, or would have taken pics for the record. A few days later I realized it was a big deal, so started a thread on it.

 

[gunlaker]

I think you can get pretty close to 1 moa accuracy at 100m with the .22LR consistently in calm conditions. Calm as in under 0-2 mph.

I shoot 10 & 15 shot groups prone for BPTR practice. The front of the rifle is basically rested and the buttstock is held in the hand so not as steady as a bag rested rifle at all. My groups tend to be very close to minute of angle, although there is often a user induced flyer that will be a bit ugly . I shoot a rifle that is far more expensive than most would consider spending on a rimfire. Also to get really good performance you have to spend serious coin on good match grade ammunition. I've never had anything but terrible results with cheap ammo.

I've never had acceptable results at 200m which is as far as I've shot .22LR. I think the extra distance requires seriously subtle wind/mirage reading that is currently above my pay grade. Also the velocity variation of even good match ammo isn't really that great. At 200m I think 1.5 to 2 MOA for 10 shot groups is actually doing pretty well.

Chris.

 

[easyrider604]

Finally joined an outdoor club again so can shoot at 100 meters.
Doubt I can duplicate the 1MOAs from 10 yrs ago. No harm trying.

I’d be lucky to get even one MOA group considering my eyes with the beginnings of cataract, trigger finger and leftover Dynapoints are also 10 years older.

May get lucky and get a .5 inch at 50, though.

 

[Maple57]

The math is quite simple and you can find it on any decent ballistics calculator.

If you begin with a half way decent rifle that can produce 1 MOA at 100 yards in calm conditions and chronograph the loads to find what brand is most consistent velocity.

Once you find something that holds inside 20-30 FPS extreme spread and is accurate, you can start shooting further.

If we look at the effect of a velocity spread of 30 FPS we can translate that to a variation in vertical drop at 300 yards equal to about 3.09 inches by my math... 20 FPS is 2.06"

So if you have an imaginary dead perfectly accurate rifle and ammo the best vertical group you can expect consistently is about 2 vertical inches if you are within 20 FPS and about 3 vertical inches if you are within 30 FPS.

The rest is simply up to the accuracy of the rifle and the calmness of the conditions and you need to add something for natural round distribution.... and that in my experience accounts for about 2 inches at 300 plus 3 inches of vertical and bingo pop cans at 300 can be done in ideal weather conditions.

So when someone makes a claim regarding what they find "acceptable"... I dismiss it. ... its ambiguous and speculative.

When someone says you cant use it effectively past ### distance... I dismiss it. What is effective anyway... its ambiguous and speculative.

The math is the math and it ties exactly to reality.

Shooting at 300 yards with a 22 is no trick and anyone can do it, just understand that you would have a hard time holding any better vertically than the ammo is capable of.

I am ignoring wind in this evaluation as it certainly does reek havoc on the above, so don't expect to do this is a blustery day.

 

[grauhanen]

The math is quite simple and you can find it on any decent ballistics calculator.

If you begin with a half way decent rifle that can produce 1 MOA at 100 yards in calm conditions and chronograph the loads to find what brand is most consistent velocity.

Once you find something that holds inside 20-30 FPS extreme spread and is accurate, you can start shooting further.

If we look at the effect of a velocity spread of 30 FPS we can translate that to a variation in vertical drop at 300 yards equal to about 3.09 inches by my math... 20 FPS is 2.06"

So if you have an imaginary dead perfectly accurate rifle and ammo the best vertical group you can expect consistently is about 2 vertical inches if you are within 20 FPS and about 3 vertical inches if you are within 30 FPS.

The rest is simply up to the accuracy of the rifle and the calmness of the conditions and you need to add something for natural round distribution.... and that in my experience accounts for about 2 inches at 300 plus 3 inches of vertical and bingo pop cans at 300 can be done in ideal weather conditions.

So when someone makes a claim regarding what they find "acceptable"... I dismiss it. ... its ambiguous and speculative.

When someone says you cant use it effectively past ### distance... I dismiss it. What is effective anyway... its ambiguous and speculative.

The math is the math and it ties exactly to reality.

Shooting at 300 yards with a 22 is no trick and anyone can do it, just understand that you would have a hard time holding any better vertically than the ammo is capable of.

I am ignoring wind in this evaluation as it certainly does reek havoc on the above, so don't expect to do this is a blustery day.

Shooting is not done by math alone. The figures cited are indeed the math. But it only takes you so far. Most people understand that the math is much easier said (or plugged into a ballistics calculator) than done. The math should say that with the so-called "half way decent rifle" and ammo that holds a 20 - 30 fps ES it's possible to regularly shoot .1's low .2's at 50 yards. That doesn't happen very often. How many guys are in the 1/4" at 50 club?

What is a "half way decent rifle"? A few examples might lend some credence to an otherwise incredible post. To sure, an "imaginary dead perfectly accurate rifle," as posited above, could work the miracles claimed for it. The thing is no one has a perfectly accurate rifle, imaginary or not, no one shoots near perfect ammo in near perfect conditions, and no one shoots perfectly all the time. No one. Perhaps serious BR competitors have approached this level of perfection, but no one posting here does.

The math is what it is, to repeat the truism. It hardly changes the reality that as distance increases with .22LR shooting the difficulty increases even more. Every single factor that militates against perfect, ballistics calculator accuracy at the ideal range for .22LR -- 50 yards/meters -- is magnified more and more as the distance shot increases. To put it in a simple rule of thumb, it shouldn't surprise anyone with experience that if the distance shot doubles, the size of the group triples. That rule of thumb is much more realistic than plugging numbers into a ballistic calculator and saying "See, it can be done. The math says so." When such claims are backed up by the targets that support it then the theory can be proved by practice. It is easy to write a cheque on the keyboard, but if it can't be cashed then it's not only worthless but a another empty claim.

 

[hoytcanon]

The math is the math and it ties exactly to reality.

No, it most certainly does not... and if you really were an experienced shooter, you would know that.

 

[Maple57]

Ya... tell it to Bryan Litz.

 

[hoytcanon]

Ya... tell it to Bryan Litz.

Are you Bryan Litz?

Yeah...