realistic accuracy

ffwd

ffwd

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I recently was out with my Weatherby Mark V in 7mm Weatherby mag. Before I had fired a shot, or mounted a scope, I glass-bedded it with JB Weld. The action fit quite poorly and was flexing the stock when the action screws were tightened. At this time I took the opportunity to float the barrel by removing the hump at the end of the barrel channel and ensured a decent amount of clearance between the barrel and stock. I mounted my Falcon Menace 10X with TPS rings and a Picatinny rail. The rail provided a very straight, stable base for the rings. So much that the scope kind of just fell into place. I was only able to check twist and parallel with a set of straight edges, but it was very nearly perfect. Factory 150 gr. ammo printed a 1.5" group while I was sighting it in, and 40 handloads helped get my flinch to go away. 60 handloads at Homestead was too much for a Sunday and I fired 40 without any cleaning and couldn't figure out why my groups went to #### at 200 m. 34 handloads later, on a weeknight, and I printed a 1 MOA group at 200m with the Berger168 gr. and 1 with the Sierra 160 gr. I have fired 154 rounds through this setup now and the flinch is almost gone. The first 60 rounds were fired off of my ammo box with my jacket on it and the rest were fired from a plywood front rest I made in the shop with my left hand as a rear rest. I don't even want to try from standing yet. I'm fairly pleased with this rifle so far and should be able to get my groups even smaller. I will be trying some faster powders after hunting season to try and find that magic load.

I guess the point of this thread is to find out what other people are doing, or not doing to get that 1" at 100 or 2" at 200 with their hunting setup.
 
how do I get consistant <1" groups from my hunting rifles?

Steps:

#1 buy a Remington 700
#2 lighten trigger to 1.5 - 2lbs (10min home job)
#3 quick load development
#4 shoot at range

Done :)


as beutiful as some weatherby rifles are, and I see LOTS when I'm guiding (clients seem to bring them often) I've not seen many that impressed me accuracy wise.
 
Glass bedding and pillar bedding is always worth while. im not sure jb weld is the optimum medium for bedding thoe. i think that 1.5 moa for a hunting rifle is plenty but if you can tune your rifle down to .5 moa that is awsome. i myself prefer to work on flinch with a .22 but if you want to be sure its gone have a buddy hand you the rifle and occasionally not load it and that will really show how you manage your flinch. a good solid rest with sand bags at the front and rear of the rile is also a benefit to showing what your rifle is capable of but you should also shoot from field positions too to see how the rifle reacts.
 
Almost any of the new rifles, with some load development will print close to an inch or under, out of the box with no modifications, other than smoothing the trigger out. Does not seem to matter which manufacture I have tried. Remington, Winchester, Savage, Tikka, Sako, Wby Vanguard, Kimber..... they were all accurate.
 
Well considering that you say you have a flinch, your groups are not bad. I'm not sure shooting a 7 mil Weatherby Mag is the optimum way to get rid of a flinch, in fact I would say it is not. I've run into a number of folks over the years shooting heavy recoil rifles that have developed a flinch. Most of these have been magnums (we know that only a magnum can kill anything). No, I'm not anti-magnum, I have several.

Anyway, my advise to them has always been, put the rifle away, go get your .22 and a brick of ammo. Shoot the whole brick and then go back to your hunting rifle. Once you develop a flinch, they are hard to fix. Lots of shooting with a .22 does help.

Bedding the action is and free floating is always a good idea, however, that hump that you mention at the forend of the stock is there for a reason. Several light bbl rifles do, in fact need a fore-end pressure point. I have had and worked on a nbr of Winchester Featherweights and Just about every one required pressure at the fore-end.

If I find that a rifle is stringing, either vertically or horrizontally, the first thing I do is pressure point the fore-end. I've even done this at the range, while I been shooting. Pull the stock off the rifle and put several 1/2" wide layers of masking tape across the bbl channel about an inch back of the fore-end tip. If that works, you know where the issue is, and you can either have a gun-plumber put a pressure point in or do it yourself. (I've actually left the masking tape in for 20 years and it does just fine too.)

It doesn't sound like your groups are all that bad, but yes, your rifle should be capable of better. The variables of handloading are many, seating depth, bullet selection, powder, primers..you get the idea. My general approach is to pick the bullet that I would like to use and start there.

Also a good rest is important, if you want to see what the rifle is capable of.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how things go .
 
Thanks for the replies so far.

I had two packs of acraglas that I couldn't locate while I was bedding, but I knew where the JB Weld was. It's a 2-part epoxy, that cures hard, so hopefully it will be fine. Of course, a week after I finished, I found the acraglas while looking for something else.

I read quite a few arguments for and against the hump while lurking on this and other shooting sites. I took it out, and if I can't get the rifle to shoot as well as I want, I'll put a hump back in.

I can understand that shooting a .22 will allow me to shoot without worrying about the noise and recoil, but I figure if I'm going to get used to shooting a loud, harder kicking rifle, I should shoot it more. It's been working so far. The concentration and relaxation before the trigger gets pulled is coming to me with greater ease the more trigger time I get.

I never was proficient with the last 2 rifles I owned because I never shot them, except for a week before hunting season. I'm already a better shot with this weatherby than I was with other rifles, and I'm sure it's because I have shot it more. Either way, I fully intend on shooting it until the barrel needs to be replaced. And then replacing it.
 
ACKLEY ABE said:
Well considering that you say you have a flinch, your groups are not bad. I'm not sure shooting a 7 mil Weatherby Mag is the optimum way to get rid of a flinch, in fact I would say it is not. I've run into a number of folks over the years shooting heavy recoil rifles that have developed a flinch. Most of these have been magnums (we know that only a magnum can kill anything). No, I'm not anti-magnum, I have several.

Anyway, my advise to them has always been, put the rifle away, go get your .22 and a brick of ammo. Shoot the whole brick and then go back to your hunting rifle. Once you develop a flinch, they are hard to fix. Lots of shooting with a .22 does help.

Bedding the action is and free floating is always a good idea, however, that hump that you mention at the forend of the stock is there for a reason. Several light bbl rifles do, in fact need a fore-end pressure point. I have had and worked on a nbr of Winchester Featherweights and Just about every one required pressure at the fore-end.

If I find that a rifle is stringing, either vertically or horrizontally, the first thing I do is pressure point the fore-end. I've even done this at the range, while I been shooting. Pull the stock off the rifle and put several 1/2" wide layers of masking tape across the bbl channel about an inch back of the fore-end tip. If that works, you know where the issue is, and you can either have a gun-plumber put a pressure point in or do it yourself. (I've actually left the masking tape in for 20 years and it does just fine too.)

It doesn't sound like your groups are all that bad, but yes, your rifle should be capable of better. The variables of handloading are many, seating depth, bullet selection, powder, primers..you get the idea. My general approach is to pick the bullet that I would like to use and start there.

Also a good rest is important, if you want to see what the rifle is capable of.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how things go .
Click to expand...


X2, I have also put something under the end of the barrel while at the range. Have seen a five shot 2 inch group go to a five shot one inch group.
I have said on these threads before, that in the glory days of shooting, ie, the 1950s, or there abouts, there was a tremendous international interest in all phazes of shooting. General gist on bedding was a pressure point was needed near the end of the barrel. Further, the general consensous was about six pounds of pressure should be required to pull the barrel from its rest, with an average sporting barrel. A light spring scale was often part of a target shooters gear.
 
ffwd said:
I. The first 60 rounds were fired off of my ammo box with my jacket on it and the rest were fired from a plywood front rest I made in the shop with my left hand as a rear rest. .
Click to expand...

The issue isn't the rifle, it's your shooting technique.

You are actually gettign very good groups for a wobbly set up, while flinching.

A steadier rest that incorporates some sand bags and some more trigger time to eliminate flinch and you should be good:)
 
Why the hesitation to shoot off hand? That's the position where you'll feel the least recoil and the position that'll most tell you whether or not you're ready to go out in the field.

RG

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I'm with Gatehouse - shooting one inch groups at 100y takes considerable skill and technique. If in doubt, let an accomplished shooter go at it with your rifle.
 
Yep I agree! you need a good rest and you really need the most important thing a good light crisp trigger

Most 1 inch group at the range turn into 2 inch plus at 100 when you go shooting.

I have a couple real one inch guns that will in fact shoot moa or sub moa each and every time out in any temp off a bench rest

My hunting rifles are hunting rifles I will settle for 3 cold bore shots around an inch.

This still allows killing accuracy out to 300 yards
 
Out of curiousity, if you removed the pressure point before you ever shot it, how do you know you didn't make the rifle shoot worse? It may have been sub-moa with the pressure point.

I would shoot the rifle first, to see if it was a shooter, before making those modifications.
 
If you can't kill a deer out to 400yds with a rifle that prints 1.5" groups, it is you and you shouldn't be shooting that far. Sight your rifle in, then set up pie plates out to 400 and shoot off of a bipod, standing, shooting sticks, and whatever until you have garnered your personal hunting range. For the average guy I think 300yds is lots, and this will cover 99% of the shots offered to you by game. The other 1% is why you should always carry a camera.
 
It can stabilize the barrel, and it changs its vibration characteristic. For a given load, the rifle may or may not prefer a pressure point, you have to do a trial to establish what works. My feeling is that pressure points were often provided in wooden stocks to compensate for any bedding flaws around the receiver (Remember, manufacturers like to keep costs down, and having someone spending lots of time fiddling with bedding is expensive.)
FWIW - My experience is that a rifle that is well bedded at the receiver (ie proper glass bedding job) and freefloated wil outshoot its equivalent with a pressure point.
 
Work on your technique whenever you can, and much work can be done by dry firing at home. Try placing a coin on the top of the barrel near the muzzle then dry fire. The object is to dry fire without knocking the coin off the barrel. Start with a quarter then graduate to a dime. The skinny Weatherby barrel will make it a challenge, but when you can do this, your groups will improve. When you shoot concentrate on the cross hair to the exclusion of anything else. When the striker drops, your bullet will hit what the cross hair covers.

Att he range if you are shooting from a bench it will be beneficial to have the rifle supported by a sandbag both at the front under the foirearm and at the rear under the butt.
 
The best thing for your technique is a gun with less or little recoil that is similar to your hunting rifle. I use a 223.

Technique is a funny thing, I'm a decent shot when I went to the range for the first time in 10 months a few weeks ago I was terrible, the next week I got back to shooting well. It was all in my setup on the bags, it's likely in your alignment.
 
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