Really old shotgun ammo

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Going through my stuff and found some really old paper hulled ammo.

Some of it says "Winchester New Rival", "Canuck" or just "12 gauge".

Is this stuff safe to shoot?

Is it collectable?

Anyone know around what time frame these were made?

Was going to put it through an H&R single shot for fun.

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A few individual rounds like this have little collector value, especially in this condition. At least two of them are reloads and another one is very pocket worn, may not chamber in some guns. Have fun.
 
Black powder gets a lot more explosive with age, they say. Maybe these are not that, but they could be corrosive primed.
 
Ashcroft said:
A few individual rounds like this have little collector value, especially in this condition. At least two of them are reloads and another one is very pocket worn, may not chamber in some guns. Have fun.
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From the pic. I would agree with Ashcroft . Should work , little collector value , some reloads , go ahead & have some fun .
 
Two of them are black where the crimp joins together in the middle, this shows that they have been previously fired, compare to the others. These likely date to post war, 1940's, 50's, maybe '60's, and highly unlikely to be black powder. Corrosive primers in domestic hunting ammo was phased out in the 1930's and earlier. Still a good idea to clean your bore properly sfter shooting them if you are concerned. The shooting of corrosive primers or black powder does not instantly cause corrosion, neglect does.
 
Big Bad said:
Black powder gets a lot more explosive with age, they say. Maybe these are not that, but they could be corrosive primed.
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Agree. The winchesters would be black powder for sure
Cheers

Winchester New Rival (1901-1920) green cases in 10, 12, 14, 16 and 20 gauges)
Canuck 1915-1955
Others ???


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Wow! I'm not really into this, but some fascinating information on this topic.

I will check all the ammo and let you guys know some of the maker info etc.

I believe most of the ammo is 20 gauge, but I think I saw some12 gauge as well.

Will also post at a later date, some of the weird centrefire ammo I found.
 
Black ( or any other) powder does not get more 'explosive' with age, if anything it may deteriorate if it isn't stored properly. It is possible with old ammo like this for the shot to corrode together if poorly stored, making a more or less solid projectile. As far as the corrosive effects of black powder goes, ask the black powder shooters, they shoot it all the time, they cleanup properly after and their guns are fine.
 
Ashcroft said:
Black ( or any other) powder does not get more 'explosive' with age, if anything it may deteriorate if it isn't stored properly. It is possible with old ammo like this for the shot to corrode together if poorly stored, making a more or less solid projectile. As far as the corrosive effects of black powder goes, ask the black powder shooters, they shoot it all the time, they cleanup properly after and their guns are fine.
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I based that statement on when they started looking at old cannons that were in parks and memorials around Montreal and area in the 1970s and found that a surprising number of them were fully loaded with a powder charge. The experts who went around and disarmed them said that the powder grows more dangerous over time, not less. I'll go with that.
 
I do not know why they don't make paper shotgun shells any more - it would satisfy the environmentalist you can use the same formula as toilet paper so it will break down quickly when wet - i do get tired of picking up spent plastic shells when i go hunting from other people (sigh)
 
Big Bad said:
I based that statement on when they started looking at old cannons that were in parks and memorials around Montreal and area in the 1970s and found that a surprising number of them were fully loaded with a powder charge. The experts who went around and disarmed them said that the powder grows more dangerous over time, not less. I'll go with that.
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May be wrong but I will take a guess/ stab at this
Black powder really doesn't break down like smokeless. Moisture sure does effect it but the minute it drys out it is a good and powerful as it was 100 years ago
What I think the canon guys were saying is this
In the 1800's the formulation by most countries was a mixture of 76% Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter, KNO3), 14% Charcoal (Carbon, C), and 10% Sulfur (S).
In the years prior as far back to the 1300 's the english and french especially had their own formulas changing them all the time which were far more for lack of a better word explosive being less and less powerful as they got to 1800 but do to how they mixed it
Thus the stuff in the canons would be for sure more dangerous the older it is
Just my take
Cheers
 
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IvoB said:
I do not know why they don't make paper shotgun shells any more - it would satisfy the environmentalist you can use the same formula as toilet paper so it will break down quickly when wet - i do get tired of picking up spent plastic shells when i go hunting from other people (sigh)
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You can still get them, but only in target loads I believe. Federal and I think Kent still load some. I miss them. The switch to plastic was mainly because they're more waterproof. Paper hulls have been known to swell and be difficult to chamber when damp.
 
The shell with the D.C. CO CROWN headstamp might be black powder. I have one marked DOMINION CROWN, green hull, roll crimped, and it says "Black" on the overshot wad.

You might find that some of these old shells might not fire at all . . . I recently fired (or tried to fire) some old WW Super-X paper shells, I had several that would not fire, even with repeated attempts.

Other than that, blast away! And as Kamlooky suggested . . . be sure to enjoy the aroma. Most paper shells smell awesome right after they're fired!!
 
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