Really quiet PAL Air Rifle - preferably not PCP

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linux99

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Hi

I see all these really nice suppressed Air Rifles - supposed to be whisper quiet - on sites from the UK and USA. But in Canada all of the "silencer" elements have been removed to make them legal for sale here.

Makes it hard to work out what is actually still a quiet gun and what would have been if it hadn't been messed with but is now a Canadian Bang Cannon.

I'd love recommendations.

I want to shoot .22 at subsonic velocities - but want to get over ~ 15 ft/lbs of muzzle energy (ie it's a hunting gun).

I'd like a break or under-lever action if possible, though I dont care Gas or Metal Spring if it's quiet.

Any thoughts?
 
- So no supersonic guns.

- In the UK world of 12 ft/lb hunting rifles, the max velocities depending on real results, were around 800 fps in .17, and 600 in .22. Early on, coincident with most guns being springers, and later gas ram, the .22 was the pet. My experience with those back in the day was that I couldn't have told whether I was shooting a silenced rifle or not. I don't doubt I could have told had someone been shooting at me, but from the shooter perspective I saw little difference. It actually takes a fairly significant increase in volume for the human ear to tell that a volume increase has occurred, which may be why db is a logarithmic scale. You can buy actual db meters on ebay for around 20 bucks. With springers, the spring was normally noisier that shooter side muzzle blast. The point of having a silencer was to make it possible to take repeated shots in situations where multiple quarry were present as the game was often of a type where many targets were available, unlike at least the shooting I see over here. With PCP various cans and shrouds have a marked effect. I did wonder though, when shooting at something like doves, or rabbits, just how less startling a silenced rifle was.

- So basically if you want a really quiet gun one of the first things you can do is get a low velocity model. That will make things nice and British for you. Sadly the sub PAL models are not powerful enough for my taste, but going for everything you can get will get you a noisy gun, and often not an easy to shoot one with springers.

- If your main objective is to stop quarry hearing you, you can try a muzzle brake, these do not reduce noise overall, but may reduce noise to the quarry.

- More quality seems quieter, I haven't heard a new Weihrauch, but mine were fine. I also prefer gas ram, but must say I really only know the Theoben. I think gas ram is quieter because there is less rattle of the spring, but also because they never seem to diesel, but that may not be true of all, depending on piston and plunger and many other things.

- longer barrels may help.

- If I wanted a reasonably cheap gun, I might try a Crossman Trail that is not too souped up, in .22. I'm guessing same piston stroke length, mostly, larger hole to swallow the gas.

- I would also look at muzzle brake design that some models come with. Some of these, even those with an enlarged hole, and obviously no baffles, still contain the bloom at the muzzle. Study available MBs, as they may not all be the same relative to whatever it is you want (quarry, range noise, shooter's ears, etc...)

- Speaking of what you want, depending on what you most want to be quieted, you may need to consider the impact noise on target of various pellets and calibers.
 
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I tried to quiet down air rifle's for year's. One day I was at EPP's and saw a box of CCI Quiet and decided to try them. I have never used a quieter partridge/grouse rifle!
I use that ammo in my Savage Rascal with a 16 inch barrel. I use it when moose hunting. A clap of your hand's is a LOT louder then that "sound" when you squeeze the trigger
 
Pepperpopper said:
- So no supersonic guns.

- In the UK world of 12 ft/lb hunting rifles, the max velocities depending on real results, were around 800 fps in .17, and 600 in .22. Early on, coincident with most guns being springers, and later gas ram, the .22 was the pet. My experience with those back in the day was that I couldn't have told whether I was shooting a silenced rifle or not. I don't doubt I could have told had someone been shooting at me, but from the shooter perspective I saw little difference. It actually takes a fairly significant increase in volume for the human ear to tell that a volume increase has occurred, which may be why db is a logarithmic scale. You can buy actual db meters on ebay for around 20 bucks. With springers, the spring was normally noisier that shooter side muzzle blast. The point of having a silencer was to make it possible to take repeated shots in situations where multiple quarry were present as the game was often of a type where many targets were available, unlike at least the shooting I see over here. With PCP various cans and shrouds have a marked effect. I did wonder though, when shooting at something like doves, or rabbits, just how less startling a silenced rifle was.

- So basically if you want a really quiet gun one of the first things you can do is get a low velocity model. That will make things nice and British for you. Sadly the sub PAL models are not powerful enough for my taste, but going for everything you can get will get you a noisy gun, and often not an easy to shoot one with springers.

- If your main objective is to stop quarry hearing you, you can try a muzzle brake, these do not reduce noise overall, but may reduce noise to the quarry.

- More quality seems quieter, I haven't heard a new Weihrauch, but mine were fine. I also prefer gas ram, but must say I really only know the Theoben. I think gas ram is quieter because there is less rattle of the spring, but also because they never seem to diesel, but that may not be true of all, depending on piston and plunger and many other things.

- longer barrels may help.

- If I wanted a reasonably cheap gun, I might try a Crossman Trail that is not too souped up, in .22. I'm guessing same piston stroke length, mostly, larger hole to swallow the gas.

- I would also look at muzzle brake design that some models come with. Some of these, even those with an enlarged hole, and obviously no baffles, still contain the bloom at the muzzle. Study available MBs, as they may not all be the same relative to whatever it is you want (quarry, range noise, shooter's ears, etc...)

- Speaking of what you want, depending on what you most want to be quieted, you may need to consider the impact noise on target of various pellets and calibers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I am from the UK and my old Webley Vulcan was 12 ft/lbs of quiet death :) I'd be more than happy with something similar. I don't think the sub 500 fps non PAL guns are humane for killing things with - anything over 12 is good and a few in reserve for slightly longer shots would be nice.
 
zuke said:
I tried to quiet down air rifle's for year's. One day I was at EPP's and saw a box of CCI Quiet and decided to try them. I have never used a quieter partridge/grouse rifle!
I use that ammo in my Savage Rascal with a 16 inch barrel. I use it when moose hunting. A clap of your hand's is a LOT louder then that "sound" when you squeeze the trigger
Click to expand...

I am a huge fan of CCI Quiets! I use them when I dont want to draw attention (even though I always shoot legally it's nice to not have people in your business at times) and they are awesome.
 
A higher end springer in .22 would fit the bill. My HW97 is very quiet- and comparable to the cci quiet (which is also very good). Check a TX200 as well. Unfortunately anything that quiets the report is prohib here. Tuning kits are available to adjust power as needed.

PCP rifles tend to be louder.

Where are you located? I'm sure there are airgunners close to you.
 
I am also from the UK and got back into airguns after getting here. You need a PAL for anything decent and you are right about sub 500 fps not being humane. I am sick of seeing how many non-license holders ask about "hunting" with them over on the airgun forum. Depending on the pellet, it is 4-6 ft lb - hopeless.
HW97 is a good idea, or TX200. I have a HW77 in 177 and it's great, same metalwork as the HW97.
You can also get 12 ft lb kits if you want to calm it down a bit as that is a specific Field Target class.
I put a full power Vortek kit in my HW80 but wish I'd gone lower power. It's nice and smooth now but a beast to cocked, almost a two hand job.
Also, not many airguns go supersonic and it's not a good idea anyway as accuracy suffers.
 
I think that the pump up pneumatics (Sheridan) are quieter than a springer at equal velocities .... in my pretty subjective opinion though
 
Crossman phantom when they go on sale for $89 at crappytire or wallymart.. if YOU have a PAL its easy to mod it. all you need is a screw driver, some epoxy, 2L pop bottle, and few pennys.. should shoot in the 600+ range with heavy .22s. cheap and easy. But there is also far better as far as quality goes in air guns
.
 
I have a tx 200 mk3, this, and the 97k are both pretty quiet, the tx is prolly in Diana 24 range of report, neither has that ear turning crack, because being top class FT rifles the fly in the 900ish fps. Both rifles barrels are well shrouded, the 97k's barrel is only 11inches long hidden inside the ###y shroud. My tx is quieter though, cause its an older unit. Both177 BTW, and accuracy is all that. Also a detuned Diana 48 in 22cal is quiet and slicker than ### dripping off a gold tooth.
 
Many thanks to all who replied!

I ended up getting a cheap and cheerful .177 Crosman Shockwave from the Cabelas sale.

So far am really pleased with it. It delivers 18 ft/lbs of energy in .177. If I shoot the H&N Sniper Magnum Airgun Pellets 0.177 Cal @ 15 gr each then they come out at around 720 fps. That's well below the speed of sound so no sonic crack. So far I'm pleased with the accuracy - but I'm still within the "breaking in" range. I'll report back later when I'm 500+ shots in.
 
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