Reamer Question

J

Jim AB

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I ordered a reamer for the first time, a custom 6.5/375 Ruger. I didn't pay enough attention to the throat depth when I received to drawings. Even being quit specific with the "gunsmith" and the bullets to be loaded the throat was cut way to shallow. It's not deep enough to allow for 125s to be seated at the bottom of the neck. I had asked it to be throated for 140s but would be using 160s mostly. Do I have to order an other reamer or can the throat be recut an other way.

The "gunsmith" was Ralf Martini. I sent him bullets to use as reference. I don't think they came out of the bag. But this is only one in a number of things badly screwed up on this $2500 mess.

Jim
 
Jim AB said:
I ordered a reamer for the first time, a custom 6.5/375 Ruger. I didn't pay enough attention to the throat depth when I received to drawings. Even being quit specific with the "gunsmith" and the bullets to be loaded the throat was cut way to shallow. It's not deep enough to allow for 125s to be seated at the bottom of the neck. I had asked it to be throated for 140s but would be using 160s mostly. Do I have to order an other reamer or can the throat be recut an other way.

The "gunsmith" was Ralf Martini. I sent him bullets to use as reference. I don't think they came out of the bag. But this is only one in a number of things badly screwed up on this $2500 mess.

Jim
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Dude, if it is costing you that much money, please tell me you have not paid for it yet. If i was putting out that kind of cash on a rifle built to my specs, it had better be built to MY specs. I'ld not be paying until things are made right, I'll tell you that.
 
Short is better than too long.

Throating reamers are available that will sort out the problem, if used carefully.

Sorry to hear that things are not working out so good.

Cheers
Trev
 
gunasauras they will not ship rifles until paid in full. Which in all fairness I can't blame them.

This rifle has a stock on it that cost $350 and has $325 worth of bedding because the "gunsmith" found that the aluminium bedding block was misaligned with the barrel channel that he had to open up for a barrel that is just way to heavy for a hunting rifle. There is 70% more filler around the action than original stock. The dam stock should have been shipped back. Beside the part that the wrong one was order and the Max Guard finish was not applied. But that's OK they say because they didn't charge me for it. The cases will not even eject properly. They fall off the bolt face when the bolt brought back. Trigger is so thin, really not my liking at all. The "gunsmith" advised that the factory trigger, bran new out of the box SPS Remington, is not adjustable so I agree to have him change it. But unless it was similar to the original one he should have brought it's profile to my attention for approval, you would think.

This is a little part of a letter from the "gunsmiths" wife. Believe me she gets even more condescending and venomous as the e-mails are addressed.

"Unfortunatly , what happens in this trade , and we speak to others about this problem , people get a notion to build some kind of wildcat , selfcustomized rifle , thin king they can reinvent the wheel and what happens is they end up with some Frankinstein , which initially they ordered but now realize that the call was not good. We are not in the business of helping people design rifles but build what they ask , making a few suggestions along the way . We are no longer going to take on work like yours because in the long run we end up with nothing but headaches because of the non conventiality of what is requested .
Other gunmakers find this all the time too and many just out right refuse when some one walks into their shop with a whole bunch of ideas ."

They can not wrap their heads around the fact I want every discussion on "paper" and decide not to discus it further. This is after they want proof that I told her to order a certain stock number. "Don't be cutting and pasteing I want the whole e-mail" she says. I do and this and is where the e-mails stop.

I've sent all their e-mails and mine to The Custom Gunmakers Guild of America's ethics committee in hope of finding them as mediators.

I just got the reamer from them in the mail but I sure don't see my original trigger. If I don't see it in the next week thief will be added to there resume.
 
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tiriaq, trevj Thanks. So just order a throating reamer in the right calibre. Do I have to worry about lengths or is this cut till you have the throat deep enough. And yes shallow is better than to deep.

Jim
 
Do a Google search. There's a fair bit of info out there.

Set-up and carefull work. It's not exactly a "chuck it in the cordless drill' job.

Man-o man. Minor nightmare with the gunsmith. Whoodathunkit! :D

Something to be said for having all the details worked out in advance. I think I'd be pretty PO'd if a smith even suggested that he neded to put as much value in labor into a stock that should have been good in the first place.

I like that. "We are not in the business of helping people design rifles but build what they ask". Maybe they should reconsider that policy. Sometimes the customer is wrong. It would be good in those circumstances to be on the record as thinking whatever idea is a poor one, and why, and have the customer acknowledge that, if he/she still wishes to go ahead. Makes it so much easier to cut down on the guys with strange ideas that didnt work, making out that it is the smiths problem that it didn't.
Aside from that, a happy customer tells some people, but an unhappy one, tells everybody, eh!

Wihout knowing all the details, I won't comment on the specifics of your particular case, but the email does read pretty snotty to me.

Did the build end up as was ordered? What else was done to rack up a $2500 build on an SPS? Gold plating?

Good luck!

Cheers
Trev
 
Reamer $155
Blue print action $150
Shilen Barrel $675
Trigger "kit" $110
Talley Rings and lapped $240
B&C stock $340
Bedding and realigning $325
Rifle $600

Plus $200 worth of brass and add GST and there you have it.

I comment after that e-mail if he hates this kind of work so bad why did he take on the job. No comment. I thought gunmakers are suppose to help out with their experience.

One time he does input is a discussion on barrel length and contour. He can't get the length of barrel 26" I want with the, just over standard Magnum contour, what ever the number was so he says we can use the next size up. I agree, I can tote around an extra 1/2 pound. He says he can always turn it down if it is to heavy. Great sounds good but I never figured how unbalanced the rifle would be and the gap around the barrel and the stock if it is turned down. Things a good gunmaker should have concidered. Thus the comment on we only build what the customer asks for.

OOOHHHH!!!

Jim
 
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Any gunsmith with a 6.5 throater can throat it to the length you want. You supply a dummy round consisting of new unfired fully sized brass with the bullet seated where you want it.

Short throat is way better than a long throat. Seating your bullet a bit deeper is no big deal...

How ever if you can not seat your bullet out close to the lands, accuracy will suffer.

You can not have "the perfect throat" for all bullets weights. It is a compromise.
 
Jim AB said:
Reamer $155
Blue print action $150
Shilen Barrel $675
Trigger "kit" $110
Talley Rings and lapped $240
B&C stock $340
Bedding and realigning $325
Rifle $600

Plus $200 worth of brass and add GST and there you have it.

...
Click to expand...

$2795 How much of that exactly is their labour charges? I see
$150 for action work
$325 for stock work
$ ? for lapping the rings. Bases part of that?
$ ? for chambering and installing the barrel.

Do you have any complaints about the RIFLE other than the throat issue? I have NO idea who they are but your post isn't clear what they got paid for the work.
 
Oh just about everything, The barrel however matches the action. Beadblasted stainless steel.

That is the invoice I received from Martini. And yes the bases are included in that price. Google Ralf Martini, Rob.

Dennis that was my desire to have it throated for the 140s and run 160's mostly. But as I said it is throated way to shallow even for 125's, so you can imagine how deep the 160's are.
 
I am going to go

Jim AB said:
I ordered a reamer for the first time, a custom 6.5/375 Ruger. I didn't pay enough attention to the throat depth when I received to drawings. Even being quit specific with the "gunsmith" and the bullets to be loaded the throat was cut way to shallow. It's not deep enough to allow for 125s to be seated at the bottom of the neck. I had asked it to be throated for 140s but would be using 160s mostly. Do I have to order an other reamer or can the throat be recut an other way.

The "gunsmith" was Ralf Martini. I sent him bullets to use as reference. I don't think they came out of the bag. But this is only one in a number of things badly screwed up on this $2500 mess.

Jim
Click to expand...

on the defense of Ralf in this one.

Look at your quote above.

Whom did you order the reamer from? PTG? If so, did you discuss what you were looking for with the reamer maker? If you did not discuss it and took what was sent it is no ones fault but your own.

Sending the gunsmith the reamer and telling him you want it throated for such and such a bullet with a CUSTOM reamer that possibly has to short a throat in the first place is not the gunsmith's fault. Yes it can be throated longer but something tells me there were a lot of assumptions in this case. When one orders a reamer one usually gets it for the bullet they plan on shooting.

From what I have read it is pretty tough to have it throated so that the 125's will be at the neck shoulder junction as well as the 160's.

The bit I read it looks like all the blame is being put on Ralf.

Barrel contour, unless you have actually seen the contour you want in person it is pretty damn hard to visualize what it will look like.

The trigger why is it his fault for it being to thin? You say he should have discussed the size of it with you.

Anyway's my interpretation it is not ALL his fault.
 
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One does not always order a reamer for the bullets you intend to shoot. You might get the reamer with a short throat for instance, then a seperate throater, which would allow you to use the reamer for more than 1 bullet weight. Ralf should have a 6.5 throater, and should not have shipped this rifle as is. He has done enough of this work to know which way is up. Doesn't sound like he is much into customer service. Sometimes comes from seeing too many customers. Depending on how far away from him you are, one might take your rifle to him and ask to have the fookups made right. Don't just leave as is. This looks like Ralf didn't like the B+C stock, rem trigger etc. The stock should have been returned to mfg. Rem. triggers are adjustable if you want to do it. Ask Dennis. Mark
 
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You don't always get what you ask for either. I recently ordered 4 reamers and throaters and the 243 had a 6mm neck diameter. The 300WM and the 308 both had long throats and I specifically asked for short throats. I was talking to the man himself on this one. I didn't check the 243 neck length yet but I do have to send the 30's back. The reamers arrived do not match the order form. The 7STW was off the shelf and had no throat, just what I wanted. 1 out of 4 ain't bad :rolleyes:
 
Guys I'm not a big poster on this site but that aside I have seen Jim's gun and it looks like $hit. A $300.00+ bedding or fitting job on a B&C medalist stock and you can see at least an 1/8" colored putty down the side of the barrel . The barrel contour is heavier than was first agreed I beleave. Why the contour wasn't cut to the original agreed upon contour, I have no idea. And the throat well that is fixable most gunsmiths likely have a 6.5mm throat reamer. And the trigger - Rem's X mark pro can be set up just fine. It did not need to be replaced. This gun should have never left the shop as it is.

Alan.
 
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