Reaming a chamber

[josquin]

I just took my new-to-me BSA-sporterized P-14 out to the range for the first time today and got some very good groups (around 1"-1.25" @ 100 metres!)

Now that I know the old gal can shoot, I'm thinking of reaming it out to .303 Epps to take advantage of the stronger Mauser action. From what I have read, reaming a chamber isn't difficult (gauges a must!) as long as one goes slowly and checks the depth regularly, but I'd appreciate the opinions of those more experienced than I.

Stuart

 

[guntech]

It is best done in a lathe. One of the biggest problems you will have is removing the barrel. Then you will also have a problem cutting the chamber to the correct depth because the gauge measurement will not change throughout the reaming until it is too late and you have cut too deep already....

Chambering isn't a home job for most people......

 

[bearhunter]

Don't do it. It's very difficult to impossible to get .311 bullets that are constructed properly to handle the increased velocity of the Epps. The 303 British is a fine cartridge with pretty good performance, and most Pattern 14s, if they have a good chamber, will withstand maximum listed loads without even breaking into a sweat. If you're doing this for fun and can afford it fine, If you're trying to get a high performance hunting rifle, it will be more likely cheaper to buy a good used one by the time you get special dies etc. Another thing that may occur is different barrel harmonics or heaven forbid a poorly reamed chamber. To many variables that may screw up an already good rifle to take a chance. I'm saying this from personal experience and regrets, but if the rifle is unimportant to you and you are just playing around go for it, have fun and good luck.

 

[josquin]

It's very difficult to impossible
to get .311 bullets that are constructed properly to
handle the increased velocity of the Epps...

Hmmm..... I was going on the load information on Steve
Redgwell's .303 website (2700 fps. with 180 gn. bullets,
using Speer 180 gn RN). The .303 Epps has been around
for a long time and this is the first I've heard of this problem.
BTW- no special dies are required; the brass is fireformed with
light loads.

But I appreciate your (and Dennis S's) comments re mucking
up an otherwise good rifle. I am hoping to take this to Africa
in a couple of years for a plains safari, loaded with premium
bullets such as Woodleigh (with whom I should check re velocities.)
I got the rifle at a very good price and it turned out to have
been glass-bedded by a previous owner (although with quite a lot of
"forend tip pressure" that I decided to remove before going to
the range) plus a Timney trigger and d&t for scope mounts, which
were also included. All I did was strip the stock and apply a dozen+
coats of hand-rubbed oil and ended up with a rather nice rifle:

that shoots like this:

(The location of that tiny group at top right is suspicious;
I think I turned the adjustments the wrong way, but I just
checked the now-dry target and there are three holes there,
much to my amazement.)

So I don't want to muck it up!

Stuart

 

[Eagleye]

Stuart; I have a Winchester built P14 that shoots just like yours. I am using 308 Winchester loading Data, since the P14 action will easily take the "guff" and the case capacities of the two cartridges are virtually identical. I have got 2670 with the 180 grain bullet, and 2475 with Steve Regwell's beautiful 200 Grain Semi-Spitzer [.313" dia] The latter bullet consistently shoots into less than 1" I slugged my bore and it was .3128", so opted for the bullet closest to groove diameter. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[josquin]

Stuart; I have a Winchester built P14 that shoots just like yours. ...

My other P-14 (more or less "as issued" except with excess wood removed) was made by Winchester in 1917 and shoots small groups, too. I've only had it out on the range a couple of times but it shot a cloverleaf at 50m with issue sights using Sierra 180gn spitzers. That one had a bit of a rough bore as I recall because I fire-lapped it. But I think I'll leave the BSA alone in that regard.

I don't know who made my BSA P-14 as the that info was ground off when they re-did it. But I'm not complaining! I haven't slugged the bore but the .311 Remingtons seem to shoot just fine.

I should get some of Steve's bullets to try. I'm not sure if he's up and running at the moment as they are not mentioned on his website. I'll drop him a line. The other bullets I'd like to try are the Frontier Game Master. They do a 174 gn and a 230(!!)

Stuart

 

[mooncoon]

It is best done in a lathe. One of the biggest problems you will have is removing the barrel. Then you will also have a problem cutting the chamber to the correct depth because the gauge measurement will not change throughout the reaming until it is too late and you have cut too deep already....
.

If after removing the barrel, you put a sized shell into the future chamber and screw the barrel back in with the bolt closed, you can measure the gap between the reciever and the shoulder on the barrel.
That allows you to measure how far you are going in using a dial guage on the lathe. I would go in 1/2 the amount or less and double check to make sure that my measurements were correct and working out the way I expected..
If you have the lathe skills to be doing a chamber job, you also have the lathe skills to make an adjustable chamber guage. Essentially turn a cartridge out of steel which separates on a screw thread a short distance behind the shoulder (ie breachwards). It also needs to lock in position with a set screw. This means that you can unscrew or lengthen the guage until the bolt no longer closes on it and measuring the gap with a feeler guage tells you how much to long the chamber is relative to the guage.
For chambering purposes you would need to make the guage a bit shorter than the intended chamber. For a guage to measure headspace on an existing gun, it can be made the same length as the factory cartridge.

cheers mooncoon

 

[josquin]

Well, I don't have a lathe so that's out for me. Actually I thought I saw an article where someone reamed a chamber without removing the barrel, using a long handle on the reamer, but I can't find it. But I think you must have the proper GO and NO-GO gauges to measure the headspace; the bolt should just close on a GO gauge and not on a NO GO.

But it seems that it is simply not worth the risk for me to try it; if I had a junker I could write off the cost of renting the reamer and gauges as a learning experience. (Actually I have a Martini-Enfield .303 with a shot-out bore... hmmmmm) but it's probably better to find a gunsmith with an Epps reamer and pay to have it done properly. Ellwood Epps could of course do it but there may be someone closer.

Stuart

 

[bearhunter]

Elwood would if he could, but unless you have access to the other side, I doubt it. Though his shop is now being run by some pretty good people. bearhunter

 

[josquin]

Elwood would if he could, but unless you have access to the other side, I doubt it. Though his shop is now being run by some pretty good people. bearhunter

OK, I stand (er, sit) syntactically corrected. "The folks at Ellwood Epps could do it..."

Stuart

 

[josquin]

.303 bullets at Epps velocities

...It's very difficult to impossible to get .311 bullets that are constructed properly to handle the increased velocity of the Epps....

I sent an e-mail to Woodleigh in Australia regarding the acceptable velocities for their .303 bullets (ref. the Epps conversion), as they listed the optimum velocity range as 1800-2200 fps. Here is their reply:

Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:12:31 +1100
From: Shirley McDonald <zedfield@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: .303 bullet velocities
To: Stuart Tarbuck <josquin@shaw.ca>
Reply-to: Shirley McDonald <zedfield@iinet.net.au>
Organization: Zedfield Pty Ltd

The recommended impact velocities for both our 303 bullets are a bit
conservative and are basically tailored for the standard 303 ballistics.
The 174gr PP would be fine up to 2800 fps impact velocity, or more on
African plains game.

The 215gr is fairly soft, and it would be best to keep the impact velocity
to below 2400 fps.

Therefore for most shots, a MV of 2500 fps would be fine.
Our recommended velocities are not calculated, but made
after extensive field testing.

Regards,
Geoff McDonald.
WOODLEIGH BULLETS

This of course only applies to their bullets but it was interesting to get their reply. And from the Epps loading info on Steve Redgwell's site, the max. muzzle velocity for 180gn. bullets is around 2700 fps. I prob. would stay a bit below this to allow for ambient heat issues, so I think I'd be ok.

Stuart