- Location
- British Canuckistan
you're wrong...that's just for plinkin'!No, no, no!! You need a 375H&H for hunting!!!
Nothing less will do!!
Reasonable cartridge selection for hunting in North America
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
No, no, no!! You need a 375H&H for hunting!!!
Nothing less will do
NEED? HELL, I've shot plenty of critters in the boiler room with 7s and 30s, most run a bit before the pile-up. All shot with my .375 drop on the spot, cool.
- Location
- British Canuckistan
at the same time...I'm reading the 2000 Cartridges of the World manual and from that this is what I've taken so far...the 30.06 takes it all and is what most other caliber's are measured against.
I'd appreciate it if all this talk about "just one gun does the job" would cease please.
Its hard enough to convince the wife I need another caliber without all this talk clutterin' up the forum for her to read!
Can't the mods step in here? Isn't this against the rules or something?
Its hard enough to convince the wife I need another caliber without all this talk clutterin' up the forum for her to read!
Can't the mods step in here? Isn't this against the rules or something?
Very true.
You are making entirely too much sense, say something about a 375 Ruger being better than a 375 h&h....
Well, it *is* the NEW KING, you know
Is that not 100% the trurh lol!
And some larger ones that did not do what the smaller ones did.
Trevor2Toes
Regular
Darnit! Time to toss out my 6.5 x 55mm Swedes! And .270's. They're under .284 caliber.
Well, it *is* the NEW KING, you know
A king without much of an army.
Alright!....I'll take the bait!
Yes the 30-06 and it's boring cousins work....So what!
So does a well placed arrow......So why not just use a bow and arrow?
I have and I can tell you from personal experience of the angst felt while watching the buck of a lifetime walk because the right shot didn't present itself.
Same thing goes for the elk, big moose, or big bear hunter armed with one of the mentioned pea shooters...He needs to wait for a reasonable shot conditions or risk having the animal escape and die some miles away.
Most bubbas will not wait and just blaze away.
There are reasons that Gatehouse and the rest of us that like heavy hitters won't part with our 375's or whatever.
When Murphy shows up the heavy hitter makes a big difference.
So long as the shooter can manage it well I believe in using more than enough gun.
Yes the 30-06 and it's boring cousins work....So what!
So does a well placed arrow......So why not just use a bow and arrow?
I have and I can tell you from personal experience of the angst felt while watching the buck of a lifetime walk because the right shot didn't present itself.
Same thing goes for the elk, big moose, or big bear hunter armed with one of the mentioned pea shooters...He needs to wait for a reasonable shot conditions or risk having the animal escape and die some miles away.
Most bubbas will not wait and just blaze away.
There are reasons that Gatehouse and the rest of us that like heavy hitters won't part with our 375's or whatever.
When Murphy shows up the heavy hitter makes a big difference.
So long as the shooter can manage it well I believe in using more than enough gun.
To distill your argument even further down Clarke there is NOTHING in Canada that can not be hunted with a Model 70 chambered for 30-06 loaded with a 180 grain Nosler partition.
30-06 is nothing more than a "bigger is better" (not so) copy of the 7x57, so why bother?
7x57 will do it all, proven world-wide.
Trevor2Toes
Regular
Close but not quite. The 7mm Mauser has a slightly bigger case capacity and handles the heavier bullets better.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The choice of cartridge is only one element to consider. The rifle needs to be appropriate to the conditions expected as well as appropriate to the game being hunted. I'm a .375 fan, but I'm also a .30/06 fan because both are so good. From the view point of hunting as opposed to bear work; I don't feel under-gunned with the '06 and I don't feel over-gunned with the .375. If I do my part, both rounds kill game, but if I screw up, both rounds will wound game.
I own rifles chambered in both cartridges that shoot better than I can hold, but I can shoot both rounds competently. The short, fast handling, .375 carbine with the scout scope is a better choice to solve close range problems than is the long barreled '06 with the fixed 6X scope. Conversely, in the open the 6X scope sometimes makes hitting a little easier, even though the the trajectory of both rifles is quite similar. While I could put a conventional scope on the .375, I'm just not comfortable with a scope that close to my face on an enthusiastic kicker. If I was hunting game that tends to blend in with it's background, particularly in open country, the 6X scope has the advantage and under such conditions the longer .30/06 posses little inconvenience.
Lastly, my .30/06 is my fair weather gun while my .375 can stand up to anything nature has to offer. Heat or cold, wet or dry, it never misses a beat. That's and my ability to hit with it out to 300 yards is primarily why it's my go to rifle. The fact that is has more power is of less concern in a Canadian or North American hunting scenario. The .30/06 when loaded with an appropriate bullet has a reasonable expectation of killing any North American big game with a single shot from any angle within the limitations of it's range. The same can be said of the the .375 and may other cartridges, but once we reduce bore size below 6.5 that is no longer true. The 6.5's are what I consider the lower end of what should be considered a general North American hunting cartridge. Small bore shooters, the 6mm's and quarter bores, must qualify the cartridge with specific shot placement, on specific species of game, but not so the 6.5's. This is not because of the difference between the frontal area of the .264" bullet and the .257" bullet, but because no one as yet produces a 150 gr .243" or .257" big game bullet.
I own rifles chambered in both cartridges that shoot better than I can hold, but I can shoot both rounds competently. The short, fast handling, .375 carbine with the scout scope is a better choice to solve close range problems than is the long barreled '06 with the fixed 6X scope. Conversely, in the open the 6X scope sometimes makes hitting a little easier, even though the the trajectory of both rifles is quite similar. While I could put a conventional scope on the .375, I'm just not comfortable with a scope that close to my face on an enthusiastic kicker. If I was hunting game that tends to blend in with it's background, particularly in open country, the 6X scope has the advantage and under such conditions the longer .30/06 posses little inconvenience.
Lastly, my .30/06 is my fair weather gun while my .375 can stand up to anything nature has to offer. Heat or cold, wet or dry, it never misses a beat. That's and my ability to hit with it out to 300 yards is primarily why it's my go to rifle. The fact that is has more power is of less concern in a Canadian or North American hunting scenario. The .30/06 when loaded with an appropriate bullet has a reasonable expectation of killing any North American big game with a single shot from any angle within the limitations of it's range. The same can be said of the the .375 and may other cartridges, but once we reduce bore size below 6.5 that is no longer true. The 6.5's are what I consider the lower end of what should be considered a general North American hunting cartridge. Small bore shooters, the 6mm's and quarter bores, must qualify the cartridge with specific shot placement, on specific species of game, but not so the 6.5's. This is not because of the difference between the frontal area of the .264" bullet and the .257" bullet, but because no one as yet produces a 150 gr .243" or .257" big game bullet.
Go review the reloading manuals, some have the 7mm-08 listed higher in some bullet weights. The difference between the two is usually within 50fps.... so I would call that about the same.... and as cool as the 7x57 is, they are seldom produced in new rifles...
Go review the reloading manuals, some have the 7mm-08 listed higher in some bullet weights. The difference between the two is usually within 50fps.... so I would call that about the same.... and as cool as the 7x57 is, they are seldom produced in new rifles...
The loading manuals lie about 7x57, it's well known they have data for the relatively weak rifles made before WW1.
In modern guns there will be more difference when loaded to standard European pressures, or hand loads.
True, they are seldom produced in new rifles in America, I don't know about elsewhere, but there are ways around that. All it takes is a new barrel.
I subscribe to the small, medium and heavy classes of cartridges. Most of the calibers we use here would be in the light class, and most of the game we have is suitable to a average light rifle. So yes, one could use one rifle for everything and no, I don't wanna. Within the "light" class you have to go to the extremes to see a big difference. A .243 isn't nearly the gun a .300 Win Mag is, but a .270, .280. 7mm Mauser, 7mm Rem Mag and 30-06 may as well be the same thing for what most of the people do, most of the time. The middle of the road light rifles make poor dual purpose varminter/deer rifles while the .243 makes a good one. The .300s try really hard to be mediums. The STWs and ultra mag class can add an extra 100 yards of point-blank range to the .270/30-06/.308 class. These differences aren't exactly nothing, but for most of the people most of the time they just don't matter. When they do matter, they matter a lot. Besides it gives us something to argue about.
Actually one manual is using a Winchester Model 70 and the other is using a Lilja barrel and the warnings state that this is intended for new firearms only and not older military firearms these are the new higher pressure loads. So, again they are basically the same... I wonder how many people think these loads are for old models and think they can exceed them in new rifles.
I use the online figures at www.Hodgdon.com, too cheap to buy a book, otherwise I check the muzzle velocities at wikipedia, which are European. There is a difference.
Still, I agree with Dogleg; there have been times I felt better wearing a monster-mashing .458.
Still, I agree with Dogleg; there have been times I felt better wearing a monster-mashing .458.
