receiver welding

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zouave

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A few years back I bought an old lee enfield that had been sporterized but in a nice way. It has a beautiful walnut one pc stock, barrel turned, action milled, sights added and my question, the thumb notch had been welded in then milled along with the receiver. Knowing that welding a receiver is not a good idea I purchased it more for the beauty of the rifle then firing it. But in the time I have had it I have had it to two different gunsmiths, one says ok to shoot , the other says don't shoot. Any opinions here. Thanks.

Zouave.
 
A decent weld, despite what anybody says about "welds weakening the receiver", should be okay. They would not recommend it as "safe", because their butt might be on the line if it isn't, and you get hurt.

Take the US for example, they reweld brittle old ww1 and ww2 receivers for use in their semi automatic machinegun builds, if this practice was even slightly dangerous, it would not be as common as it is.

A picture will allow us to give you a better opinion, just make sure the welds are not shallow, are solid, and don't have any bubbles in them. The bubbles on the surface probably mean you've got bubbles inside too, meaning the weld is more of a "sponge" than solid. If it looks good to you, then it should be good though.

edit: welds always shrink, check to see if it has warped to a significant degree that it causes any parts to bind. Chances are it will be so minimal, that you will not notice it without special tools.
 
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Depends on the capabilities and technique of the welder. A good welder would preheat the receiver and ensure that the filler rod is compatible. A TIG or MIG process with cover gas would probably be best. If a visual inspection reveals no flaws, for a small area, probably OK.
 
Welding receivers thumb notch, like Mas 36 or Lee Enfield, where bolt locks in rear, should never be atempted. This is the point where maximum stress occurs. Front locking bolt actions, like M 98, can be skillfully welded there, without undermining integrity of action and safety of the shooter.
 
bushwhacker said:
Depends on the capabilities and technique of the welder. A good welder would preheat the receiver and ensure that the filler rod is compatible. A TIG or MIG process with cover gas would probably be best. If a visual inspection reveals no flaws, for a small area, probably OK.
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Definitely a good TIG weld will do, i am TIG welding a receiver of my own. Make sure the welds protrude over the top, and can be ground down, that means you'll have a good strong weld. If you can still see where it was welded because they were shallow, i might suggest have a welder re do it. A weld can be just as strong, or possibly even stronger than the rest of the receiver, just got to use the right metals, and have it done properly.
 
A lot could depend on who did the work, and how well it was done. The load stress on a Lee Enfield does extend from front to rear, so the weld filled area would be involved. I is a longitudnal load, though. The filled area is not too far from the locking area. Who knows how far the heat ran, what sort of filler was used, or if any air hardening occurred. Whole darn thing could have been red. If the work looks as if it has been really well done, perhaps the 'smith knew what he was doing.
Apart from cosmetics, I would look for any signs of cracking or warping.
It is probably safe to assume that the rifle has been used since the welding was done. If it didn't fail then, is it likely to fail in the future. Who knows?
Michael - the welding on your Sarac receiver does not involve any areas subjected to the stresses resulting from the discharge of the cartridge. Those are taken by the barrel extension and the locking rollers.
 
tiriaq said:
Michael - the welding on your Sarac receiver does not involve any areas subjected to the stresses resulting from the discharge of the cartridge. Those are taken by the barrel extension and the locking rollers.
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Good point lol, still with various antique mg rewelds, theres bound to be a good example of solid rewelds... How about the Bren builds, some of them are cut in real nasty places that have been rewelded, or is the stress also placed upon other parts?

I guess, you should verify if it has been shot before, the weld method used, and how it looks visually to you. Last thing you want is some brittle receiver that will crack on you. If it were TIG welded, then it should be okay, but if it were gas welded, then the whole area would have had to been bright red, and probably resulted in a brittle frame. I can generally tell welds apart if you have a picture available.

I'm not familiar with this "thumb notch", what is its depth and size? If the weld in question is small, don't worry too much. If it takes up a critical amount of your receiver, try test firing it with a string attached to the trigger lol! Actually, even if it were brittle, it would not just blow up on the first shot would it? I can see it slowly cracking, but nothing too instant. Allowing you to discard or cease firing the moment you see damage occurring.
 
Well - Its mentioned in the original post that the subject rifle has a one piece stock. Assuming its a Lee Enfield, and not a P-14, the rifle was probably done by Epps. These rifles also had a lug welded on the bottom of the receiver.
I doubt these rifles were re heat-treated, so the HAZ (heat affected zone) would likely be softer than the original spec, which is probably not a bad thing.
I think I 'd check to ensure that the bolt lug engagement is equal before putting too many rounds through it.
 
Many years ago I purchased a one piece stock for a Lee-Enfield from Epps in Clinton Ont. and since then a friend gave me a barreled action, I'm hoping to mate the two as I think it will make a very good be it somewhat different looking rifle. As near as I can (by the stock) a recoil lug is welded to the barrel, the back tang is modified to look like that on a 03 Springfield after removing the original stock mounting and so on. My question is could some confirm the location of the "new" recoil lug for me? Thanks in advance --- John 303.
 
The Lee Enfield and the Enfield #3{Pattern 1914} are as far apart from one another in design as you could imagine! The Lee Speed action locks in the rear , while the Enfield locks in the front of the action.These areas are flash hardened to resist wear and maintain head-space through rugged amounts of firing! Heating of the reciever through the welding process without regard to the temper drawing aspects is to court disaster!!!I have seen a number of guns come apart over the years. Gus rebuilt by untrained and technicaly ignorant individuals unschooled in pressure factors.You can take a loss on a gun. Where do you stand on body parts!!!!!!!!!! I apprenticed with a man who trained in England Quote{When it comes to pressure , if you can't hold it back with your thumb use caution}.
 
I fully understand the differences between Lee & the P-14 etc. That is why I asked the question about where is the recoil lug located on a Lee converted to a one piece stock. Looking at the Epps' stock in my pocession it is welded on / attached in some way to the barrel. I believe that was done to alleviate the necessity of re-tempering the action. I was hoping that someone that has one of these rifles to tell me where and how the recoil lug was attached in this type of conversion-it could easily be dove tailed into the action / barrel. --- John 303.
 
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