Rechamber/Barrel Martini Henry

[mooncoon]

My vote would be to rebarrel a rolling block rather than a martini. Principle reason is that you can clean the barrel from the breach and if black powder shooting it is much easier to run a brush through between shots. It is also relatively easy to make a new extractor or to silver solder a extension on an existing extractor.
In terms of cost; if you have a metal lathe and can thread and chamber the barrel yourself, and make your own chambering reamer, the project is practical, but if you have to pay a gunsmith to do the work for you, I suspect you would be better off buying a gun on the EE

cheers mooncoon

 

[flipp121]

Okay so heres as far as I can sum up:

1) Order threaded barrel.
2) Find a .303 brit extractor
3) Bring all parts to the gunsmith and have him ream it with the extractor. (Not sure how this could be done on a martini, as you cannot ream from behind the reciever is in the way), head space and all that.

Badda bing, doesnt seem that hard?

 

[jbunny]

Okay so heres as far as I can sum up:

1) Order threaded barrel.
2) Find a .303 brit extractor
3) Bring all parts to the gunsmith and have him ream it with the extractor. (Not sure how this could be done on a martini, as you cannot ream from behind the reciever is in the way), head space and all that.

Badda bing, doesnt seem that hard?

food for thought; u want to shoot BP loads and reduced
smokeless loads. have u thought about 44 mag instaed???
the brass is half price, the pistol bullets are half, price,
a lot less powder, and carbide dies don't need any messy lubeing. whatever u decide the extractors are made of
unobtainioum. make sure u check the lock up bolt fafe is
square to the barrel. u make a lathe turned dummy shaft
for that. contact me of list for pics hoe i madified a shotgun
extractor for a 44 mag. i still have a hard time to post more
than one pic at a time
jb

 

[trevj]

None of the rolling blocks on tradeex seem to be in good shape, they all have broken extractors/etc...

Yer lookin at the wrong ones, then.

Look at the 8mm ones that were arsenal converted, then later cut down to use as Forester's rifles.
Once re-barreled to a caliber over 8.5 mm (.33 cal, more or less) they can be un-registered. This process is easier with the ones that have a date.
The 8x58RD case has the same rim diameter as the 45-70 case, or near enough, the extractor has been updated to a better extractor than the sliding style, and the receivers have been fitted with new innards, and re-heat treated at the factory, during the conversion.

If you are looking at the lowest priced ones, and do not have the capability to make your own parts, consider that gunsmith time is going to cost you far more than buying a decent "start" to the project will, to get you to the same stage.

I bought a Rolling Block for IIRC $79 or thereabouts. Unlike vagrantviking's, the funky stock on mine was the best part. It's action is a hack job of badly force matched parts, that can be resurrected, but not economically. Another really long term project!

If you start with a decent Rolling Block, or a decent Martini action, the conversion process is pretty straightforward. If you start with junk, you end up with way more to deal with along the way.

Cheers
Trev

 

[flipp121]

jbunny:
.44 mag would increase the pressure, I intend to hunt with this rifle and a low pressure 45-70 is much better then a downloaded .44 mag. Brass isnt really an issue, as I buy from starline $100 us for 250, and use cast bullets.

Trevj:
I dont see it being much cheaper to rebarrel/chamber a rolling block as I still need a barrel and gunsmithing. Also I would have to buy one from tradex, hope its a good one, and possibly sell martini for funds. And then i'd have to nitpick with the government over dates etc. Plus I prefer how the martini loads and shoots, and I already know my action is in excellent condition.

 

[josquin]

Aaarrggghhhhh.......

There was a thread on the M-H Forum some time ago about trying to get one of the Italian companies (Uberti??) to start making M-H reproductions. It didn't fly, as the cost would be prohibitive and the market probably too small to tool up for. Pity, though. Maybe some kindly retired machinist with a lot of time on his hands needs to start making parts for these things.

Of course, there are Afghani "gunsmiths" turning out M-H's ("Khyber Pass Specials") with little more than a set of files and a hand drill who could probably whip you up an extractor in no time.

Stuart

 

[tiriaq]

Okay so heres as far as I can sum up:

1) Order threaded barrel.
2) Find a .303 brit extractor
3) Bring all parts to the gunsmith and have him ream it with the extractor. (Not sure how this could be done on a martini, as you cannot ream from behind the reciever is in the way), head space and all that.

Badda bing, doesnt seem that hard?

1) If a gunsmith is going to do the setup, you don't have to order a threaded barrel. The 'smith can do that. The barrel blank should be contoured. You are going to have to get a forend and sights, of course.
2) Or a .450 extractor, and rework that.
3) The barrel is chambered detached from the action. Likely will have to go off and on a few times. Measure and cut very carefully. Don't know of any pull reamers for .45-70. The extractor gets its final fitting with the barrel off the receiver. Extractor is held in place, final reaming is done, extractor and barrel together. The tricky part is fitting the extractor neatly to the barrel, and the barrel installed in the receiver with the timing correct.
It isn't rocket science, but it has to be done right. It is not going to be cheap. It is much easier to fit a barrel to a Mauser or Remington than to most single shots.

Your Martini looks pretty good. While in theory it should be possible that the rifle could be returned to its original condition......

 

[trevj]

Trevj:
I dont see it being much cheaper to rebarrel/chamber a rolling block as I still need a barrel and gunsmithing. Also I would have to buy one from tradex, hope its a good one, and possibly sell martini for funds. And then i'd have to nitpick with the government over dates etc. Plus I prefer how the martini loads and shoots, and I already know my action is in excellent condition.

No, no, no. Totally wrong attitude!

You need a Rolling Block to look good next to the Martini!

I have a couple Rolling Block projects slowly on the go, and a Cadet Action Martini, that is going to get a rework to centerfire, and probably a Hornet chambering.

It really does not matter how you go about it, one way or the other, you gotta pay. The 45-70 conversion on a martini action looks like a good one. You should dig through the links on martini-henry.com and see if you can find a used 303 extractor. It'll be cheaper than getting a build-up done on the 577-450 one, I suspect. The smith that chambers the barrel can open up an extractor pretty easily, compared to building up one, or making it from scratch. You can then either wire the original extractor to the original barrel, and store it away, or flog it as spares to someone that needs one, and recoup some of your costs.

The plus side of the chambering job is that the rim just sits flush in the barrel, plus a tiny bit to cover off for the variations in rim thickness. Fairly straightforward chamber job.

Cheers
Trev

 

[flipp121]

Hahah I wish, I'd have 40 old single shots sitting beside the martini if I had the cash! Okay well I guess thats all their is to say, I'll post some more if I get word from the barrel company and track down an extractor. The next step will be finding a martini smith!

Thanks for the contributions

 

[jbunny]

jbunny:
.44 mag would increase the pressure, I intend to hunt with this rifle and a low pressure 45-70 is much better then a downloaded .44 mag. Brass isnt really an issue, as I buy from starline $100 us for 250, and use cast bullets.
i use 240 grain win bulk bullets loaded to the max with 24.5 gr of H110 ,1850 fps. this one i bulit on the shot
gun martini. it has the safety. this is a 5 shot shot group
of the bench.

 

[josquin]

No, no, no. Totally wrong attitude!

You need a Rolling Block to look good next to the Martini!

Actually, what he needs is another Martini to keep the first one company. Let's keep the fellow on the straight and narrow and not divert him from the rut he's already in. (Besides, if he only has one Martini it technically should be called a "Martino", and that just sounds plain silly. "Martini" is plural for a very good reason.)

Stuart

 

[hansol]

Um actually, that is Bubba-ing a pristine piece of history and you should all be ashamed....

Sorry I can't even keep a straight face saying that. That will be a wicked conversion dude. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[josquin]

...this one i bulit on the shot gun martini. it has the safety. this is a 5 shot shot group of the bench.

Very impressive!

Pardon me for hijacking the thread a bit but did you do any work on the trigger? Mine is very crisp but also very stiff. Of course, with that short-travel striker, the spring likely has to be strong.

I've read about shimming the trigger return spring but that had little effect on mine. I've polished up all the contact surfaces but with little improvement. Possibly a less stiff striker spring might work, esp. if our modern primers are easier to ignite than those of a century or more ago. However, I checked with Wolff Springs and they have nothing of the right dimensions. And between the striker diameter and the diameter of the striker channel in the block there isn't much room for variation.

Stuart

 

[jbunny]

Very impressive!

Pardon me for hijacking the thread a bit but did you do any work on the trigger? Mine is very crisp but also very stiff. Of course, with that short-travel striker, the spring likely has to be strong.

I've read about shimming the trigger return spring but that had little effect on mine. I've polished up all the contact surfaces but with little improvement. Possibly a less stiff striker spring might work, esp. if our modern primers are easier to ignite than those of a century or more ago. However, I checked with Wolff Springs and they have nothing of the right dimensions. And between the striker diameter and the diameter of the striker channel in the block there isn't much room for variation.

Stuart

this is a pic of my trigger jig. it contors the sear so it's
square to the pivot point. i grind the sides of the trigger
return spring like so )(. u leave the screw end square and the trigger end full width and aprox 1/8 inch wide inbetween. make sure to poslsh the sides so there are no
grind marks.

 

[jbunny]

Very impressive!

Pardon me for hijacking the thread a bit but did you do any work on the trigger? Mine is very crisp but also very stiff. Of course, with that short-travel striker, the spring likely has to be strong.

I've read about shimming the trigger return spring but that had little effect on mine. I've polished up all the contact surfaces but with little improvement. Possibly a less stiff striker spring might work, esp. if our modern primers are easier to ignite than those of a century or more ago. However, I checked with Wolff Springs and they have nothing of the right dimensions. And between the striker diameter and the diameter of the striker channel in the block there isn't much room for variation.

Stuart

i found a pic of the triger spring. if you look closely
in the triger spring chanell u see the end of a pointed screw which is the trigger over trave screw that u adjust
from just ahead of the trigger inside the trigger guard.

 

[josquin]

i found a pic of the triger spring...

Yike! that's some serious reduction! Funny- on mine I tried removing the spring entirely, just to see if there would be much difference, but there wasn't. I'd certainly want to make sure I had a spare spring before I did that to mine, though, or at least some spring steel to make a new one.

You've got the ideal setup for machining your trigger and sear. I had to rely on ceramic stones and be very, very careful. The engagement isn't quite perfect but it's pretty good. The final squaring of those surfaces would no doubt contribute to a better trigger pull. In the meantime i'm going to look for a possible lighter substitute for the striker spring.

Stuart

 

[flipp121]

Well I recieved an email from pacnor, they want $490us for a barrel and I need to send them a diagram of the threads I want for the barrel.

 

[trevj]

Have you talked with the locals?

Ron Smith comes to mind first. There are not many barrel makers around that will give you as good a tube, and with him in AB, the barrel can be fitted to the action, instead of being cut to a size that may or may not be exactly what is needed.

Cheers
Trev