Reclamation Project

mooncoon

mooncoon

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I have finally got a relic category Bess converted back to flintlock and shootable form. Fore stock was broken in half and glued onto the barrel, big chunk of wood broken off near the lock, gun was percussion and extremely rusty and the breach plug appeared to have the end broken off so that it was only 3 or 4 threads long and the internal threads in the barrel were completely eroded away.
The frizzen is from a truck coil spring, the frizzen spring from drill rod, the hammer is from 3/4 plate. Breach plug is just mild steel shafting and required a stainless vent liner because of its length required to get past the eroded area.
The finished producti will never be mistaken for a complete original but at least it is now functional. Also I chose to make the #### appropriate to the earliest Enfield Indian pattern guns (1790's) because I like their looks more than the reinforced oock of the later ones.

cheers Doug
FinishedLockb.jpg


LockPartialRebuildb.jpg


BessPartsB4.jpg


BessinPiecesb.jpg
 
Thats great Doug!

talk about a guy born 140 years to late :D

I like to fix stuff to but you are the master of Bringing back the dead.

Just look at the work in that Hammer guys! Im impressed!
 
Bump this up :)

Man thats alot of nice work Doug!
Considering most guys cant nail a couple 2x4s together nowa days :rolleyes:
 
I think all I can add is a photo of the taps that I use to chase out the threads for the breach plug and to clean up and extend the threads on the vent liner and for the lock screws. Basically use the lathe to cut screw threads about .020" oversize, harden it and draw the temper to brown then use a cutting wheel on a dremel tool to grind flutes into the threads. I have come to think that on large taps as for a breach plug, it is important to make the flutes wider than one pass with the dremel in order to make the tap more aggresive. The original breach plug is shown and appears as if the front half broke off at some time leaving only about 3 or 4 threads. The inside of the barrrel then eroded considerably and the new threads had to get past this erosion. I use drill rod for small taps , coil springs from trucks for medium size taps and 4140 steel for the large taps.
about 1/2 the lock screws required lots of heat to persuade them to come out and the other half needed a drill plus being chased out with a tap.
You can get some idea of the amount of rust on the gun from the inside of the hammer and the breach plug in the photo. Also shown is sheet metal template for cutting out the future ####.
I try to keep to original screw threads wherever possible and that more or less means making replacement screws on the lathe.
BessTaps.jpg
 
Yes, but it would be nice to see photos of the repairs to the wood, the revers of the restored lock, and the restored breech plug (if possible).

Also, how did you attach the flash pan? Or did you just build it up with weld and then dress it down?

And why is there a vent liner? Or was it there when you got the gun.

Finally, did you manage to smooth out the bore some?
 
Breach plug and vent liner are sealed in with loktite to prevent fouling getting in the threads. The inside of the lock is unaltered except for replacing all of the screws.
The flash pan is made out of 1/2" sheet metal and part of it is filed to fit and extends into the notch where the drum used to be. It is silver soldered in place because I am unable to gas weld with oxy propane. Arc welding, at least by me, would be too sloppy.
The original breach plug was probably about .7" long, the altered one was about .3" with the area ahead of it deeply pitted and no trace of threads remaining. The new plug is just over .8" long to get past the vent/drum hole and to fill up all of the formerly pitted/eroded area. The front of the plug was then recessed a bit to allow access of powder to the new vent.
Rather than weld up the threaded hold where the drum had been, and particularly because that area of the barrel was now twice as thick because of the breach plug, I chose to put a vent liner in.
If you look in the top photo, you can see the added wood to the stock, above and ahead of the frizzen spring. It was a piece about 3" long and 1" or so high and roughly triangular. I didn't touch the piece behind and above the lock which had been nailed back in place umpteen years ago, I would guess.
The bore is big enough (.75") to use a 3 legged cylinder hone and I used that with cutting oil to smooth the barrel some. I need to do more honing and hopefully end up with about 3/4 of the area bright metal. Surprisingly there was very little pitting inside the bore ; just an even coat of rust.
I checked the bottom of the barrel with copper sulphate. I think it must be wrought iron although the pattern did not show up well. At the time this barrel was made, I don't think there was any fluid steel, certainly not in quantities big enough to mass produced gun barrels.

cheers mooncoon
 
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Brown Bess pans were forged integral with the plate, so if one has been removed, options for replacement are limited. There is a little fillet which wraps around under the pan, so if a replacement is welded in, this must be recreated. If the gun was converted with a drum, often the clearance notch cut in the plate is deeper than the pan, so the area must be built up. Sometimes the crown/GR is affected. In addition to the fillet under the pan, there are a couple of engraved lines. You can see them on mooncoon's lock, fortunately the cutout for the drum wasn't too deep. I've used O/A welding, but probably TIG would be best, if fusion welding is chosen.
Bess barrels were welded with a single straight longitudinal seam; this was standard for plain musket and fusil barrels, as well as many rifle barrels.
Mooncoon's work is impressive. Cutting these parts out of solid stock, instead of using castings, is remarkable.
 
I am flattered by Tiriaq's comments. One of the reasons for posting a photo of the taps I used and the posting the methods in reconverting is to try and encourage people to challenge themselves. About the only expensive tool I use is a metal lathe, which I use primarily for making screws and taps for cleaning out screw holes. Things like hammers or cocks can be bought as blanks fairly cheaply but I feel that screws and springs are comparitively easy to make. An oxy propane or oxy acetylene torch is extremely handy for silver soldering and tempering and are really not that expensive second hand. The torch allows a person to make all sorts of small tools either for tempering or for forging.
People might say "I don't have the ability" and many would be tempted to say "practice, practice, practice grasshopper". I think that is only partially true. I think a lot it is finding people who will mentor you or whose brains you can pick. Not necessarily someone who knows the whole process but perhaps a series of people you can go to for specific types of information. They often allow you to make sudden jumps in technique such as the idea of drilling around the outline of the ####, given to me by a gunsmith in the interior or the use of sheet metal templates for recreating hammers or tumblers given me by another gunsmith friend.
Anyway, instead of me rambling on, challenge yourselves --- learn how things work and try doing your own repairs, and while I think of it, very strongly resist the temptation to use a screw that you can jam in because you can buy it at the local hardware store.

cheers mooncoon
 
well said mooncoon, your 100% right. A big part of the joy in this old gun racket is in the learning and the friends you make in the process.

Someday I hope to know something worth passing on, till then I sure am having fun figuring stuff out with the help of generous gun nutz.
 
What kind of lathe do you use? Obviously you must have a machine with a fairly decen power feed and th apropriate threading cutters?

Getting a small lathe for threading, etc. is high on my priority list :)
 
Claven2 said:
What kind of lathe do you use? Obviously you must have a machine with a fairly decen power feed and th apropriate threading cutters?
Click to expand...

I have a Myford super 7 which actually can turn up to about 2 or 3" shafts and is 32" between centers. The value of the bed length is in rebarreling rifles and in chambering and crowning.
I doubt the motor is over 1 horse and probably closer to 1/2 horse. The real advantage is a quick change gear box and a turret head. For the last 5 or 10 years I have been threatening to make a triangular turret instead of the current square one because you can work closer to the tail stock with a triangular one.
Even though I have a set of metric threading gears for the lathe, I have never used them because so far all the threads I have run accross have an equivalent in the imperial system.
I think the one thing to watch for on the Chinese lathes, is that the chuck screws onto the head stock and can be removed easily. I hear that at least some of them are fastened to a faceplate with several screws from the back. Obviously also important to make sure the lathe has threading gears and very preferrably has a quick change gear box.
Just an afterthought but if you are thinking of a multi toothed thread cutter by threading cutters, I do all of my threading with a single point.

cheers mooncoon
 
I just missed out on a sears Craftsman 109 :(
It was in the buy and sell for $400 OBO with two chucks and lots of extras.

but i got the paper a day late.
I use a unimate which is good for real small stuff but the 109 is what i want as you can put a Revolver cylinder in there and a 10 inch barrel.
For rifles you need a bigger lathe tho.

My hunt for a decent 109 continues.
 
Just reread my last post and wondering what I meant by it re the chinese lathes. I think I meant that the chuck on chinese lathes does not always simply unscrew from the headstock but rather is fastened on by several machine screws to a face plate. Hope that is what I meant :>)

cheers mooncooon
 
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