Recoil Mod Opinions...

BlakanWite

BlakanWite

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Hey all,

I've got myself a Savage 111 (the now retired FCXP3) 7mm Rem Mag. I picked it up for a song, refurbished from a dealer at a show. It came with a synthetic stock and package scope. The scope has since been replaced. Many of you were great help in that process as I discovered the Talley Lightweight rings in the offset I required for the new scope, and bought from Prophet Firearms (great transaction and fair price btw), thank you all.

Now I've discovered that despite the fact that it came with a wonderfully cushy rubber butt-end on the stock, I cannot deal with the recoil. Not that it hurts... Actually I blew through 40 rounds in one sitting broken by some cleaning while making sure the barrel was broken in. Didn't complain in the least. But boy does she jump! ...and unfortunately, now I do too. I realize I must fix my own reaction first, so for the next little while I shall be plinking with my trusty .22 Marlin. If anyone has any more suggestions to rid myself of this 'ailment', please advise. (Switching to my Marlin after getting frustrated at not hitting anything showed me my flinch. I'm glad no one was there to see, I'm sure I just about jumped out of my seat when I pulled the trigger. :( )

Now after that admission... Yes, I am a fairly new shooter. This is the first gun bigger than a .22 that I've put any true effort into.

With all that I also started looking at why I was developing a flinch. Was it the sound? Nope, earmuffs on and standing around other people shooting didn't have me jumping at every shot. I am left to think it is recoil.

The gun weighs in (according the internets, and hefting the gun leads me to believe it) at 6.25 lbs. (I just picked up a scale and haven't weighed it myself yet... Wife has all my keys out of town. :mad: ) In my research a 7mm Rem Mag shooting 150gr bullets should weigh in around 9-11lbs to help make recoil manageable. I'm shooting for the middle at about 10lbs, as this gun should see some bush and I wanna be able to carry it all day. Here is my method for increasing weight...

- Remove some ribbing in the forend and insert this http://www.instructables.com/id/Recoil-Reducer/#step0 homemade recoil reducer, albeit using 1/2" pipe to fit. Should add weight AND recoil reduction.
-Filling the forend with Stock Stabilizer.
-Filling the butt with sand, and the 'top' with about an inch of Stabilizer, drilling a hole after it dries and inserting a plug to adjust sand levels for weight and balance. (I'm thinking sand because a deadblow hammer filled with sand doesn't bounce much after it smacks something)

Does any of this sound totally impractical? Or is there other, potentially more effective methods? My research on the web has so far yielded few results other than that recoil reducer and the Stock Stabilizer.

Oh and thanks in advance to anyone who read through that book. :eek:
 
If you handload, the easiest solution is loading 7x57 level reduced rounds with H4895 and Dacron (pillow stuffing). Getting a $150 reloading setup will pay much more in dividends and utility than stuffing the rifle with filler, inertia reducers, and sand / shot. If you still don't like the gun you'll actually be able to resell it too. The rifle will also be much more pleasant to carry. The good news is this is most easily solved with practice, working up from the reduced loads, and a 7lb 7mm Rem (scoped) is not at all brutal or untameable, with time it will feel quite gentle. Good on you for recognizing it, couldn't tell you how many folks are flinching behind their .300s and 338s every hunting season and can't recognize how much better they'd do with some effort to become accustomed to their guns. So you're on the right path. :cheers:
 
I personally wouldn't pack around a 10lb rifle, but that's just me.
The 7mm is certainly a jump up in Calibre.

Some good advice so far, reduced recoil ammo would get you more comfortable with it
 
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Ardent: Thanks! I do not handload, so it didn't even cross my mind to go with a reduced round. Though I am terribly interested in starting. I will likely follow your suggestion and start sooner than later before greatly altering my stock. Thanks for the suggestion! Now to convince the missus that I need to go to Cabela's...

nomad 68: I like the Boyds stocks, I think I will try the reduced rounds first, but do you know of where to obtain one in Canada? I looked before and could not find anyone who carried them.

GMC403: Fair enough, I'm more worried about how the extra weight will effect an off-hand shot more than anything. I'm fairly fit so carrying the extra weight doesn't trouble me. For now!

Yes, it is quite a calibre jump, unfortunately I bought the rifle without doing much research on the calibre. Learning now of my mistake! Though with my current research into the round I'm quite glad I did get it. It seems to mesh well all around with my future shooting aspirations. Just gotta get there!

Thank you all! I appreciate the feedback!
 
Reduced loads will cut the felt recoil and blast in half essentially, and inside 300 yards you won't notice a difference on Black Bear and Deer. You could get set up for $100, and by no means need a big bench mounted press, the Lee hand press is wonderful and usually what I use now despite having a reloading bench. The rounds are the same quality as you use the same dies, so I'd just buy a used set of 7 Mag dies off the equipment exchange here for $30, a tube of Astroglide from the drugstore (case lube), and a $40 hand press from Wholesale or what have you, and find a simple scale here on the EE or spring for a Lee at the store same time you buy the handpress. Oh, and a Lee autoprime hand priming tool, but it can be done with a 1/4" rod, hardwood block and a mallet. That's the setup I even load my African dangerous game hunting cartridges on.
 
Being that I'm just getting started I would not feel comfortable trying to make a humane shot outside of 300 yards anyways! So that would work very well for me. Thank you for the info Ardent, I will be acting on that post-haste!
 
Never mind the gimmicks, Ardent nailed it with reduced power handloads, and handloading can be started with only a modest investment. The nest step is to ensure the rifle fits you. Most stocks are too long, and a stock that's too long increases the recoil sensation. After the stock length has been addressed, take care that the scope provides optimum eye relief, without being so close to your eye that you get cut when the rifle recoils.

When we get to actually shooting, shoot offhand until such time as your mind understands that the rifle will not hurt you. Be sure you hold the rifle firmly so that you move with the rifle as a single unit, rather than allowing it to take a run at you and hammer you. Be sure to wear good quality hearing protection, most people have a harder time with sharp ear pain, than they do with a bump on the shoulder. As you're shooting keep the thopu8ght in mind that these things are designed to be used by normal people, and there is no reason why you cannot master it. When you've gained a comfort level shooting offhand, don't immediately go to the bench or to prone. The next step should be from kneeling with your butt resting on your heal, and your support arm supported on you raised knee. The flat of the arm behind the elbow should be supported just behind the kneecap. When you have established a comfort level shooting from kneeling, go to sitting with both elbows supported on the your raised knees. From sitting, you can go to the bench, then to prone as you progress.

Do lots of dry firing at home. The position you dry fire from doesn't matter so much, so cover them all. To ensure you're getting proper trigger control, you should be able to balance a nickle or quarter on top of the barrel near the muzzle, and dry fire without upsetting it. The lighter the barrel contour the more difficulty this becomes, but when it gets too easy, switch to a dime. When you can consistently do that, you should be concentrating so much on the mechanics of the shot, that the effect of the recoil doesn't enter your mind. You concentrate on your sight picture, then add pressure to the trigger until it breaks. the break should surprise but not startle you. Work on frequent dry firing, but don't do it mindlessly. Pay attention to your sight picture, understanding that what the sights cover when you hear the striker fall, is where the bullet went.
 
Thanks Boomer!! That sounds like good advice to me. I can see how it would work. I will be saving this post and working on this throughout the winter.

As far as stock fit... I'm looking up how to now, but any advice on checking that? I haven't had any issue with getting to know my scope that intimately, yet anyways.
 
There is factory low recoil ammo available if you would like to give it a try.

managedrecoil_box.ashx


Wholesale Sports list 140gr 7mm Rem Mag for $38.99.
 
BlakanWite said:
Ardent: Thanks! I do not handload, so it didn't even cross my mind to go with a reduced round. Though I am terribly interested in starting. I will likely follow your suggestion and start sooner than later before greatly altering my stock. Thanks for the suggestion! Now to convince the missus that I need to go to Cabela's...

nomad 68: I like the Boyds stocks, I think I will try the reduced rounds first, but do you know of where to obtain one in Canada? I looked before and could not find anyone who carried them.

GMC403: Fair enough, I'm more worried about how the extra weight will effect an off-hand shot more than anything. I'm fairly fit so carrying the extra weight doesn't trouble me. For now!

Yes, it is quite a calibre jump, unfortunately I bought the rifle without doing much research on the calibre. Learning now of my mistake! Though with my current research into the round I'm quite glad I did get it. It seems to mesh well all around with my future shooting aspirations. Just gotta get there!

Thank you all! I appreciate the feedback!
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Check out Boyd's web site. They ship to Canada. I have a couple myself.
 
I'd sell it and buy a 7mm-08 or 308 in a normal weighted gun, say 7 lbs. and up. If you download the 7mmRemMag to low recoil velocities, all advantage is lost anyhow in using that caliber and you'll still have that gun that in the back of your mind will bite you.
 
BlakanWite said:
Thanks Boomer!! That sounds like good advice to me. I can see how it would work. I will be saving this post and working on this throughout the winter.

As far as stock fit... I'm looking up how to now, but any advice on checking that? I haven't had any issue with getting to know my scope that intimately, yet anyways.
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The traditional method of checking the length of pull is to hold the rifle in one hand, extend your arm straight out from the shoulder, then bend the elbow to allow the muzzle to point skyward. You should be easily able to reach the trigger with your first finger joint, with the rifle's butt in the crux of your elbow. Another method is to shoulder the rifle normally, and the LOP is correct if your elbow is bent at 90 degrees. Just remember that LOP changes with the clothing we wear, so if you have a perfect LOP while wearing a t-shirt, it will prove too long when you put on a parka. If you're built long and lead your LOP will be on the long side, whereas a fellow who is of equal height but has thick arms chest and shoulders needs a shorter stock. If you sight your rifle in during the summer, then put on a heavy fall or winter coat, chances are you'll find the rifle shoots low.
 
bearkilr said:
I'd sell it and buy a 7mm-08 or 308 in a normal weighted gun, say 7 lbs. and up. If you download the 7mmRemMag to low recoil velocities, all advantage is lost anyhow in using that caliber and you'll still have that gun that in the back of your mind will bite you.
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That presupposes that a 7 mag kicks, it doesn't, certainly not more than a novice can manage in an 8 pound rifle. But due to excessive shooting without taking a break, his rifle has upset him, and his subconscious has responded accordingly. Therefore, the idea is to convince him that he can shoot his rifle without discomfort. The way to do that is to reduce what little recoil there is, and to minimize the sound of the muzzle blast, until he overcomes his problem, not for him to use lightly loaded ammunition indefinitely. If the OP shoots the rifle with light loads until he realizes it doesn't hurt him, when he concentrates intently on the mechanics of making the shot by checking his natural point of aim, his position, and support, his sight picture, breathing, and trigger control, he'll be far too busy to notice the nudge on his shoulder from a full powered round. From that moment onward, as long as he never allows the rifle to hurt him again, his confidence and competence will continue to improve. But if he continues to shoot beyond his comfort level, if he gets a scope cut due to improper technique or by mounting his scope with too little eye relief, if his hand is cut or bruised on a poorly placed front swivel stud, if his knuckle is bumped on the back of the trigger guard, or his hand on a bolt handle that sweeps far rearward, he'll never beat his flinch and never shoot well.
 
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I'd go with a Boyds first, but have never tried reduced handloads as per others suggestions, my savage has a bit of kick too but I find it managable, but it's about 2+ pounds heavier then yours and I don't notice muzzle jump from it (.325WSM).

Incidentally, I have a friend selling a .338 win mag on here, he's in the process of moving and it's living in my safe at the moment till it sells, it's a ruger M77 but he swapped out the factory stock for an H&S, not a cheap upgrade, but the thing has a disproportional amount of recoil to the size of the caliber, that stock made such an unbelievable difference to that rifle, it kicks less then my dads 30-06 vangaurd, if I was a right handed shooter I would have offered him money from it.

Point is not that I'm throwing a sales pitch on here, but I have seen how much of a difference a stock can make, another friend has the same rifle in 338 win mag with a wooden stock and he hates it for recoil, a stock can make alot of difference, more then I would have thought possible anyways.
 
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You could try swapping out the recoil pad on the buttstock of the rifle. I have shot a savage 16(which i assume has the same soft rubber solid recoil pad your rifle has) and a browning X-bolt (which was actually lighter than the savage) and the xbolt felt significantly lighter recoil wise when shooting (this was in .308).

Besides possibly the stock orientation maybe making it feel like less recoil, the only different between the two rifles was the recoil pad, which looking on brownings website they refer to as an "inflex" recoil pad. If you could find out who makes the inflex pads and get one to fit the savage it may help you out.
 
40 rounds in one sitting for a newby to bigger caliber guns is a sure way to develop a flinch. I find managing a flinch is more of a mind game than the rifle. I know my 338 WM in a T3 lite is going to kick, so does the 300 wsm, so I take my time on the bench, properly set up the rifle, focus on the shot and make sure I squeeze it off. I always shoot less than 15 rounds per range outing, but I make sure I focus on each shot and make it count. If I want to shoot lots when at the range I bring a 243 or 223 for in between my 338wm/300 wsm sets, they are more fun for me for high volume shooting and they are a good indicator if you are starting to pull your shot. Just my 2 cents and what works for me.
 
After shooting, does your cheek hurt?

That's where recoil bums me out, in the cheek. This has been particularly bad for me in the stock shape of Savages and Benellis. I'd take a shot, and my shoulder didn't hurt, but I had a sense of "bell-rung" shock. One day I shot a few times, took a long break to BS with the guys, then took another shot... which punched right into the bruise on my cheek I didn't know I had. OW! It was quite the revelation.

Stock shape is a huge deal.

What you can try for cheap is an adjustable cheek rest: http://coretacsolutions.com/products_TP_CRN.htm

edit: I have one of these cheek rests... it may not be expensive, but it's really really well done.

You may need slightly taller rings for this setup.

Put the cheek rest on so that it slants forward like a weatherby/monte carlo stock such that recoil pushing back pulls the gun away from your face.

It makes an enormous difference, and if you like it, you can choose to get a Boyd's Prairie Hunter stock.
 
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Kenny_G2 said:
40 rounds in one sitting for a newby to bigger caliber guns is a sure way to develop a flinch. I find managing a flinch is more of a mind game than the rifle. I know my 338 WM in a T3 lite is going to kick, so does the 300 wsm, so I take my time on the bench, properly set up the rifle, focus on the shot and make sure I squeeze it off. I always shoot less than 15 rounds per range outing, but I make sure I focus on each shot and make it count. If I want to shoot lots when at the range I bring a 243 or 223 for in between my 338wm/300 wsm sets, they are more fun for me for high volume shooting and they are a good indicator if you are starting to pull your shot. Just my 2 cents and what works for me.
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Good advice for everyone would be avoid the bench altogether, and shoot as hunting rifles are meant to be shot, off hand. Standing sticks / monopods are also useful, and in the field there are no benches, so beyond sighting in the scope there is little reason to shoot a hunting rifle that way. Perceived recoil will drop to half when standing compared to sitting at a bench, your field accuracy will increase drastically, and you'll probably have more fun at the range to boot.
 
I imagine, you just shot to many shots at once and to early. A 7mm REM is a pretty low recoil gun. Its probably lower of the mid range with recoil in the 18-22ftlb area, similar to a 30-06 that I would say is light. Try shooting less at a time and focus on placement and make sure it fits. Other then a new recoil pad, you shouldn't need anything else for that kind of gun.
 
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