Recommendations for better terminal performance - SST and 7mm-08

[RonR]

Seeking recommendations for a hunting bullet for 7mm-08. I am not satisfied after this weekends results.

I have read more than a few threads on shooters preferences for different calibers but I’d like to hear from others using this cartridge for hunting white tail based on the velocities we may be achieving. (There are a good few .08 users that know their stuff here.) There are lots of ###y alternatives for projectiles that I’ve looked at but coming back here for some honest advice for a good combination of accuracy for confidence and fatal performance for our freezer. Cost is a consideration, as well as meat recovery but never at the expense of a kill.

Situation 1. My son’s shot was 75 yards at a slight decline across a creek with a shot placed behind the front shoulder hitting what I estimate as 50% of a rib right into the boiler house. Result was massive surface entry damage, no exit wound at all and no bullet recovery but a harvested animal in the end.
Case: Federal, Primer: Federal 210, Powder: Varget 40.6gr, Bullet: SST 139gr Rifle: Savage WW …no chrono values

Situation 2. In my case it was approximately a 250 yard broadside shot, behind right shoulder, visual reaction and blood loss area on the buck viewed in scope, speckled blood on the snow for tracking but the end result was no deer recovered. Never experienced that and never want to again if I can prevent it.
Case: Federal, Primer: Federal 210, Powder: Varget 41.4gr, Bullet: SST 139gr Rifle: Savage trophy hunter…no chrono values again. My rifle likes it hotter.

Perhaps my expectations are too high but using factory Federal Fusion had pass throughs and fatal damages in all situations to date ranging between the examples above. I have read a few posts regarding the jacket thickness of the SST’s compared to other hunting bullets and my concern and experiences this weekend suggest that this combination is not damaging enough. It seems that there is more damage on the entry side than penetration.

( For the record, this is the first year reloading so please keep that in mind. We are very encouraged with improvement in accuracy at the range and in the field. We are certainly no experts in reloading but I wish I had heeded the addictive warnings of this hobby…wow.)

Regards
Ron R

 

[Cleftwynd]

7mm-08 is an awesome cartridge, especially for deer!! When using a fragile cup and core bullet such as the SST, lower velocities than the cartridge delivers at close range is required. I won't use them anymore on game, nor targets as there are bullets better suited to that.

I know many will argue the SST is great, and you can anneal them, or expose them to episodes of jerry springer and toughen them up, but that's a waste of time when there is a plethora of much better .284 billets out there.

If you are hunting with the 7mm-08 and don't know if your shot will be 10 yards or 500 yards, stick with a bonded or partitioned bullet, if you have to stick with a standard cup and core, try Noslers ballistic tips. I was using 130-140 grain bullets and have now moved up in weight for better long range performance, and tougher up close.


My $0.02

 

[hawk-i]

Shot a few moose with a 7-08 and 139 SST's.....seemed to work just fine for me.

 

[Hitzy]

Nosler Accubond in 140gr....not crazy expensive, less then $1 per bullet, good premium bullet that will expand but not blow up, and will hold together through a deer.
http://www.nosler.com/accubond-bullet/

Cup and core bullets tend to explode at close range....my brother put 4 rounds of 7x57 Rem CoreLoct into a white tail at 50-70 yards this year, 3 behind the front shoulder all in the right spot and it still kept going. 4th he put in the neck and that worked to down it. I'd probably say a close range neck shot with that kind of bullet might be better then the typical through the ribs.
For the 250 yard shot it may not have expanded at all and just pencilled through due to the lower velocity.
If you really need cheaper bullets, I've had success with Speer HotCor, and the Deepcurl are good too if you can find them, but up it to the 160gr.

 

[Prairie Plinker]

I've had my 7mm-08 for over 20 years now. I've shot and hunted with mostly 140gr bullets of all makes. My rifle really likes the Partitions, and even though they've been around for a while, in many calibers they cover the bases better than other bullets. What I mean is if it happens to be a close shot, even if the front part blows up you still have the base going through. I've never recovered a partition. This means you have two holes letting blood out, not just an entry. With the further shots, while the energy levels might be down as you do lose lots of energy during the first couple hundred yards of flight, the bullet will mushroom and still have a the base core pushing through. I've been shooting some Accubonds at the range testing them but have yet to try them on game this year. My fairly new .338-06 will be putting down the first whitetail I see tomorrow using, you guessed it, 210gr Partitions. I've been out almost every day the last week with only 2 days left in the season. As of tomorrow morning, my "buck" tag is now a "meat" tag. I love stew too much to let that tag go unfilled!

 

[Potashminer]

For at least 15 years I have been hunting whitetail and mule deer with a 7x57 - 22" barrel (same bullets, same velocities as 7mm-08). I settled on 150 Partitions, RL-19 @ 2,800 fps as per Nosler 7 manual. Have taken many animals with that bullet / load.

 

[frigpig]

A solid bullet would suit you fine.

The e tip is very nice. My Dad loves them. I personally hate Barnes. They just dont seem to expand at medium distances with anything less that mag velocities

 

[mossyhorns]

I've had good results with 140g Accubonds. Very accurate also.

 

[chrismc]

Another Accubond fan - wife has shot 5 whitetails (100-400yds) and a big bull moose (100yds) with a "just under max" load of 46 gr H414 behind a 140 Accubond. works like a bullet should. Blew right thru the moose (front quartering shot) at 100yds and DRT. All but the 400yd shot on the deer were pass thru's; no second shot required on any of these critters, and minimal if any bullet bits in the wound channel.
Not a fan of the H414 (dirty!) but her gun sure likes it - didn't like Varget, R17, or 4064.
The accubond is just a well made, well performing bullet - albeit a bit more $$$ than the rest.

 

[GMoon]

I've taken five moose cows, two mule bucks and three white tails so far with my 7-08 (Savage bought about 10 years ago) shots range from 50 to 250 yards. I've used the Speer Hot-Cor 145 grain Spitzer SP over IMR 4350. Not many bullets have exit holes on the moose but they do make it to the far side hide and I don't have to follow the blood trail very far to harvest my game (some have dropped in their tracks when hit). This past November one of the shooters in our hunting party shot a nice white tail buck and punched a fist size exit hole in him with a 165 grain 7mm Mag and lost most of the tender loin and some back strap. On the same day I hammered the moose cow with my hand load 7-08 and the cow went less than 30 yards after taking the shot in the lungs and me and my hunting partner will be able to enjoy all of the meat this winter - saving us a pile of money on the high priced beef.

 

[duncansuds]

SST are great projectiles, I did switch my 7-08 over to a Barnes LRX 145 and love em too. Little more accurate iny particular set up. Either would be great if they are accurate. I should also note I have had very reliable kills with these. Organ "goo-ifying" results typical and having pass throughs on deer out to 400y and full retention and energy dump in moose under 100 yard at 2708fps is very satisfying. I have been very impressed so far.

 

[cam1936]

Short answer for anyone concerned about terminal performance:

Partitions. Nuff said.

They will perform at any impact velocity. That is, they will still have good expansion at low velocity (unlike a mono metal) and they will still hold together at the highest velocities (unlike a cup and core.)

That being said they do have two downsides. 1) cost 2) BC is less than a tipped bullet. IMO for a hunting load for a 7mm08 you should use a Partition or a quality bonded bullet like a Accubond or Swift Sirocco. I would not use a mono metal bullet if you plan on taking game at 250 plus yards as they tend to pencil right through without sufficient expansion at the velocity the 7mm08 will have fallen to by 250 yards. They do work excellent in high velocity chamberings though (or on tougher game.)

 

[galamb]

From my 7.08 I shoot Nosler Ballistic Tips for deer and Partitions or Swift A-Frames for moose, all in 140 grain.

Like the SST the Ballistic Tips have "exploded" on me as well (internal to the deer - no exit at sub-50 yard range), but since that drops the deer I'm "ok" with that. I did try Fusions and got horrible results - dead deer but tons of meat damage.

If cost is a consideration and you want a tougher bullet you may want to try the "much overlooked" Hornady Interbond (139 grain). It's up there in toughness with the Accubond or Scirocco at a fraction of the cost. If it will shoot for you it could tick off many of the boxes on your "want list".

 

[RonR]

Thanks for all the valuable responses and experiences. Some terrific information to build on and that Jerry Springer comment make’s the papers! I have seen a lot of what was posted with magnum guys in terms of meat damage and mono bullet preferences for those velocities and now I have other combinations to consider in the future for our rifles. SST’s have obviously worked and that’s good to know too.

Bonded bullets (outside of Partitions and Swift A-Frames?) is likely what we’ll try next for deer. The popular suggestion for bonded is Accubond based on responses. Sirocco, Interbonds, and Speer Hotcore? and Deepcurl? fit into this category as options if I read this right. Mono bullets I think I will stay away from at least in this caliber… but the information shared is well received.

1. You’ll have to pardon my ignorance on the “cup and core” bullets. I understand the bonding process of the lead to the copper jacket to make the dissimilar materials stay together but how/what methods does the lead stay together with the copper otherwise? I am incorrect to think that after impact on this style of bullet that the lead and copper separates readily?

2. Based on responses Ballistic Tips and SST’s fit into this category of cup and core. Are there others like this? Interlocks and Coreloct?

3. Berger bullets and Sierra had no mention yet…and I am curious.

Thanks for your time,
Ron

 

[Hitzy]

This is a cut away of a partition so you can see the difference. They really are some of the best bullet designs ever made.

 

[galamb]

To add to the above here is some cut away, and terminal performance (at least as far as expansion goes) with six of the bullets we have been tossing around.

Note particular with the Barnes that you are getting pretty minimal expansion with an impact of (near) 2400 fps - most times my 7.08 loads are starting out around 2700 fps. The other pics cover the partition/a-frame and three of the bonded bullets.

The core-lokt's and interlock's have a kinda (lip) inside the jacket to try and keep the lead core from separating, which is a step up (in durability) over not having anything.

If you look close in this cut-away pic of a Rem Corlokt, just south of about half way down you can see the little (lip) in the jacket. I don't have the "stats" on this pic but the "super expanded" bullet impacted @ 2900 fps and the one beside it was at about 2260 fps.

Just for reference, the "average" 140 grain 7.08 load would normally be travelling around the 2300 fps mark @ 200 yards.

The "bonded" bullets use different methods (chemically bonded as an example) to try and keep the lead/jacket "stuck" together during expansion. Each method is proprietary but they all seem to work fairly well.

I do load Sierra's in both my 243 and 7.08 for shooting paper (because I get 100 bullets for 30 bucks), and while most of their hunting offerings are "good enough" for deer, I figure since the bullet is the "business end" of things and "I" may not make the perfect shot, something a "little better" than "good enough" is what I should be shooting.

Having no local source for Berger's, and having found enough other bullets that 1) shoot well and 2) are stout enough for my needs, I have never felt the urge to try them (and pay the shipping costs to get them).

 

[RonR]

Awesome post Graham! Thanks for your time and efforts because that explains it all and a good way to close the thread. (It would be interesting to see cup and core bullets explained in the same context ...likely giving lesser results which may not be a good reflection.) Good job on capturing the bullets in discussion as well.

With this information clearly depicted I can make some informed choices. Enlightening data.

Best Regards All

RonR

 

[Hotwheels81]

Between myself and another hunting buddy we have dropped 25 white tails and 2 very large moose now with the 139gr Hornady interlock.... Range from 30 yards to 310 yards... Have yet to loose a critter or recover a bullet, blood loss is akin to sloshing a 5 gallon bucket of red paint around at ground zero.... Half the price of a partition too.

 

[regulate34]

I have had 165g SST's in my 30-06 blow up. I have also had them hold together threw a front shoulder.
I don't use them anymore.

I have had good luck with interlocks

Sierras have held good in my 375

Partitions in my 243.

 

[Longwalker]

All this talk about shooting behind the "front shoulders", so where are the back shoulders?? never saw any of those yet, but they must be on some critters somewhere, otherwise why say front shoulder?? I guess shooting behind the back shoulder must be bad? I'm confused.