Recommendations for Binoculars for Hunting

Hey AP,

I bought the 6x30s from a dealer in the UK about 20 years ago. They are much lighter than the 7x50 which test your neck if they are hanging all day!. I don't often lend out kit like that, but a friend went on safari in Africa so I suggested he take them. He just accepted them without realising what they do. When he came back he was raving about them, the trackers borrowed them all day and they saw some fantastic sights. Similarly I went salmon fishing with an 'urban' friend for a week - I left them in the wheelhouse and suggested he check them out. He didn't bother (I said he was urban..) - what skipper doesn't check out a new pair of binos? A few days later we saw a RIB heading our way - too far to make it out, picked up the trusty 6x30 - yep fishery protection. The fujis gave us a few minutes to ensure all our docs were in order. After that, he spent the next 30 minutes just looking out with them - he had no idea binos can be that good!
 
zippp0 said:
Hey AP,

I bought the 6x30s from a dealer in the UK about 20 years ago. They are much lighter than the 7x50 which test your neck if they are hanging all day!. I don't often lend out kit like that, but a friend went on safari in Africa so I suggested he take them. He just accepted them without realising what they do. When he came back he was raving about them, the trackers borrowed them all day and they saw some fantastic sights. Similarly I went salmon fishing with an 'urban' friend for a week - I left them in the wheelhouse and suggested he check them out. He didn't bother (I said he was urban..) - what skipper doesn't check out a new pair of binos? A few days later we saw a RIB heading our way - too far to make it out, picked up the trusty 6x30 - yep fishery protection. The fujis gave us a few minutes to ensure all our docs were in order. After that, he spent the next 30 minutes just looking out with them - he had no idea binos can be that good!
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Yes - my experience with good porro 6x,30 as well - but its a waste of breathe trying to convince people to try a good 6x binocular. They all gravitate to the 10 and 12x without really understanding what excellent options are available for most usage. I also have a set of Pentax individual focus marine binoculars in 6x,30 as well as Leitz and the Swarovski - they all perform great. Oh well ..
 
You get a lot more for your money with a porro prism bino..... A well designed $700 porro prism will compete with the $2500 roof prism german stuff.
 
AP said:
And thats another truth thats hard to convince folks of.
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The big downside is that for hunting, they're fat and bulky, hence the popularity of the roof prisms, and it's not that a roof prism can't be made to the same optical quality as a porro prism, just that it costs more to do so. Remember the Leitz Trinovid Uppendahl roof prism? Very expensive, but compact and superior optically. Regardless, the only market for porro prisms seems to be commercial marine since advancements have been made in roof prisms.
 
The big downside is that for hunting, they're fat and bulky, hence the popularity of the roof prisms,
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that's correct but I think once bins get too heavy to carry comfortably around your neck or too large to go in a pocket ... they all get relegated to the same place anyway - a pack or case or stowed on/in a vehicle - and not too easy to access. I see many folks that buy roof prism bins and end up with units that still don't permit them to be carried all day around their neck .. my little 6x, 30 porro's are light and handy and can hang all day around the neck where they get used quickly - one of the reasons that 6x, 30 were the preferred choice for WWII infantry on all sides - and they were dealing with things that could kill them. I will add that 8x,30 porro's are often no heavier BUT 6x gives the better FOV

and it's not that a roof prism can't be made to the same optical quality as a porro prism, just that it costs more to do so. Remember the Leitz Trinovid Uppendahl roof prism? Very expensive, but compact and superior optically.
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Yes those older Trinovids are great and I have a early 8x,20C that is very good for its size and that easily fits in a breast pocket. BUT the fact remains that roof prism's will always have an extra pair of surfaces that the light must traverse. The implications wrt to grinding (and count the number of angles that must be maintained in a roof prism vs a porro prism) and cementing (and even matching the glass qualities identically) will always be a factor NOT relevant to a porro prism - and even forgetting the acute angle most roof prisms must create (not a factor with porro prisms) and the loss of light as a result of a semi silvered surface (or however it is treated) - dollar for dollar the porro prism will always provide a demonstrably better image (the design of the roof prism precludes the ability to make them to the same optical quality of a porro prism) . Fact is I got rid of all my roof prism bins (other than the rare Elcans' and the Trinovid C's) once I started to really see what the difference was ... buy yourself a pair of older Leitz porro prism 6x, 30 or the still available (I think) Swarovski Habicht (also waterproof btw) and see what I mean! I am NOT saying that the roof prism's arent very good ... just that the porro's are better. Even a set of Nikon Ell 8x, 30 will impress you and an old (not so tough) 6.5x,44 Celestron ED porro's will usually cause people to look again several times just at flowers amazed at the colours!

Regardless, the only market for porro prisms seems to be commercial marine since advancements have been made in roof prisms.
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well very true; I would add Canadian and US Artillery FOO's have been an ok market for them as well. When they are not las'ing but simply want an "eye's on" view ... and if you haven't got a computer handy the reticle still provides a very fine way of adjusting fire for direction.


I dont expect everyone to go out and buy a porro prism binocular any more than I expect folks to all buy a 270W. One size does not fit all!! BUT I think folks that are sitting on the fence should be aware that there are very good options available that include porro prism binoculars that have been built by a reputable manufacturer (there are stinkers available with porro prism as well!)

And for many folks the premium (and not so premium) roof prism design works just great - particularly if you are in the habit of planting a greasy thumb print or two on the lenses before use. The most recent units are exceptional and have come down in price due to better manufacturing techniques etc.


(incidentally you mentionned Uppendahl prism (and I am very fond of anything Leitz).. and truth be known if they had received phase correcting coating they would very likely be the best of the best of "roof prisms" but some folks were/are pretty fond of Zeiss Abbe-Koenig prisms... all pretty complex designs)
 
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AP said:
Yes those older Trinovids are great and I have a early 8x,20C that is very good for its size and that easily fits in a breast pocket. BUT the fact remains that roof prism's will always have an extra pair of surfaces that the light must traverse. The implications wrt to grinding (and count the number of angles that must be maintained in a roof prism vs a porro prism) and cementing (and even matching the glass qualities identically) will always be a factor NOT relevant to a porro prism - and even forgetting the acute angle most roof prisms must create (not a factor with porro prisms) and the loss of light as a result of a semi silvered surface (or however it is treated) - dollar for dollar the porro prism will always provide a demonstrably better image (the design of the roof prism precludes the ability to make them to the same optical quality of a porro prism) . Fact is I got rid of all my roof prism bins (other than the rare Elcans' and the Trinovid C's) once I started to really see what the difference was ... buy yourself a pair of older Leitz porro prism 6x, 30 or the still available (I think) Swarovski Habicht (also waterproof btw) and see what I mean! I am NOT saying that the roof prism's arent very good ... just that the porro's are better. Even a set of Nikon Ell 8x, 30 will impress you and an old (not so tough) 6.5x,44 Celestron ED porro's will usually cause people to look again several times just at flowers amazed at the colours!
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That may have been true when comparing porro to roof prisms of the same era, but the fact remains there are very few optics manufacturers producing porro prisms currently as the market for them is pretty much nonexistent. The coatings and technology available today far surpass any advantage the porro prism design may have had. I have a bunch of older porro binocs; Zeiss Jena Deltrintem, Swarovski Habicht, etc. None of them hold a candle to the new Swarovski EL, Zeiss Victory, Leica Trinovid, etc.

My point was simply that just because the military uses them, doesn't mean they're the best. Far from it, spending a winter's night in a military issue "arctic" sleeping bag will soon rid anyone of that misconception. :)
 
The coatings and technology available today far surpass any advantage the porro prism design may have had
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I haven't seen evidence of that; other than marketing/promo material.


spending a winter's night in a military issue "arctic" sleeping bag will soon rid anyone of that misconception. :)
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not my experience. I have used these many times under high arctic conditions most recently in Resolute and can say that they are as warm (when assembled with inner and outer etc) as my Woods 3/5 Star - although a little tighter - and a heck of lot easier to carry on the trail. My relatively short (only 25 yrs) but intensive experience with the Canadian military suggests that much of what was issued was actually of very good quality and not driven only by "the low bidder" (our GWagens would be a pretty adequate example - no?). My limited experience with specific US organizations (all ground element) suggests the same can be said of some of them.
 
Anyhow, thanks for serving.
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that's very kind and considerate - I dont deserve your thanks - I consider myself a bit of a "poseur". I never had anyone shooting at me with the intent to kill me - at least as far as I know:) Any injuries I sustained were minor and I generally knew what I was supposed to do - as opposed to the poor buggers who were supposed to follow me - which I am sure they did out of pure curiosity to see what I was going to do next! ALSO - I got a great deal out of it and lots of wonderful friends/experiences and a chance to see most of Canada - for which I am VERY grateful!! Also saw a little bit of the world courtesy of tax payers. .. and got paid a little to boot!

the thanks (and I will add mine to yours) belongs to those who risked their lives - and lost their lives - and those that were wounded - physically and/or mentally; the huge number who served - in action - over the years and just came back quietly without fanfare or self aggrandizement and went back to work in their military or civvy jobs. Those folks, and their families, are the ones that deserve our thanks!

I think what is wonderful about Canadians is that so many - like yourself - are taking the time and effort to recognize this.
 
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Yes - my experience with good porro 6x,30 as well - but its a waste of breathe trying to convince people to try a good 6x binocular. They all gravitate to the 10 and 12x without really understanding what excellent options are available for most usage. I also have a set of Pentax individual focus marine binoculars in 6x,30 as well as Leitz and the Swarovski - they all perform great. Oh well ..
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Yep - it is similar to people buying cameras by MP alone (ie - 15MP must be better than 10MP). I have an old Canon 8MP (20D), it takes superb photos (mind you - I have upgraded since...). Did I say I have a weakness for optics?
 
AP said:
that's very kind and considerate - I dont deserve your thanks - I consider myself a bit of a "poseur". I never had anyone shooting at me with the intent to kill me - at least as far as I know:) Any injuries I sustained were minor and I generally knew what I was supposed to do - as opposed to the poor buggers who were supposed to follow me - which I am sure they did out of pure curiosity to see what I was going to do next! ALSO - I got a great deal out of it and lots of wonderful friends/experiences and a chance to see most of Canada - for which I am VERY grateful!! Also saw a little bit of the world courtesy of tax payers. .. and got paid a little to boot!

the thanks (and I will add mine to yours) belongs to those who risked their lives - and lost their lives - and those that were wounded - physically and/or mentally; the huge number who served - in action - over the years and just came back quietly without fanfare or self aggrandizement and went back to work in their military or civvy jobs. Those folks, and their families, are the ones that deserve our thanks!

I think what is wonderful about Canadians is that so many - like yourself - are taking the time and effort to recognize this.
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Well, maybe you didn't have anyone shooting at you or saw any up close combat, but there's no way to know that ahead of time when enrolling, so my appreciation is to all who serve. :cheers:
 
Once again thanks for all the advice guys. Sadly I'm still trying to make my mind up. I will head down to Cabelas in Washington once the Black Friday rush dies down to check out some of these binoculars out in person. Hopefully, that will help me make up my mind once and for all.

I've also looked into the porro prism binos and the Fujinon Polaris 7x50 FMTRC-SX looks great and I found them for a gprreatice in the states ($600). The only problem is that it weighs nearly 3.5 pounds. I don't really think that would be something I'd want to carry around my neck the whole day. It would probablyjust end up in my pack. Maybe I should just toughen up a bit hehe
 
Mik123 said:
Once again thanks for all the advice guys. Sadly I'm still trying to make my mind up. I will head down to Cabelas in Washington once the Black Friday rush dies down to check out some of these binoculars out in person. Hopefully, that will help me make up my mind once and for all.

I've also looked into the porro prism binos and the Fujinon Polaris 7x50 FMTRC-SX looks great and I found them for a gprreatice in the states ($600). The only problem is that it weighs nearly 3.5 pounds. I don't really think that would be something I'd want to carry around my neck the whole day. It would probablyjust end up in my pack. Maybe I should just toughen up a bit hehe
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Its a pity that you and ZippO arent co-located to have a peak through his 6x,30 .. they would be a little more "field portable" .. just keep an open mind when you are looking - even the very high end bins can produce a "monday morning" binocular
 
Canuck525 said:
You get a lot more for your money with a porro prism bino..... A well designed $700 porro prism will compete with the $2500 roof prism german stuff.
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X2!
Yes, bird lovers have their own site "better view desired"
They are very knowledgeable about their choice of binoculars, I recomend this site, it is very interesting.
One of their top choice is Swift Auborn porro 8.5x44 bino that can be bought for arround US $500 that matches top of the line Svarowski and Leica worth US $2 500 plus.
Some models of Nikon porro bino's (about US $1 500) will surpass in quality anything on the market today no matter how expensive the competition!
 
gunrunner8 said:
X2!
Yes, bird lovers have their own site "better view desired"
They are very knowledgeable about their choice of binoculars, I recomend this site, it is very interesting.
One of their top choice is Swift Auborn porro 8.5x44 bino that can be bought for arround US $500 that matches top of the line Svarowski and Leica worth US $2 500 plus.
Some models of Nikon porro bino's (about US $1 500) will surpass in quality anything on the market today no matter how expensive the competition!
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Could you post a link where a birding site says the Swift Audubon 8.5-44's match the top of the line Swarovski and Leica? I've searched and all I can find is that they are OK. For example:
A nice binocular though I was left expecting just that bit more. In comparing them with my 8x40 Nikon Action Extremes I could not find the extra $300 difference in price between the two justified. For the price of the Swifts you can buy three pairs of the Nikons. Sure, the Swifts are a bit superior view wise but not by much, being made in Japan instead of China accounts for some of the difference in price. So all in all, the Swifts are a nice binocular but unlike other purchases from E.O. they didn't deliver a great bang for the buck feeling.
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On the other hand I could find lots and lots of birding sites where they say Swarovski, Zeiss and Leica make the best products.
 
He might have mixed up the brand.Swift does make some nice binos though. The Fujinon 7x50 and 10x50 FMT basically will compete( at least optically, too bad they are so heavy) with many of the top rated German roof prisms.In some ways they are better optically according to some.They also cost about $650 USD. I think I am going to order a pair myself....
 
You want to know who knows all about, and endlessly reviews and discusses, binoculars? It's the bird watching community. The link below goes to the binocular section of one of the better informed birding forums as far as product reviews go. The usual advice is that if you ask a question or get involved in a discussion, don't mention hunting. And I'm confident that advice is sound.

http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=112
 
gunrunner8 said:
X2!
Yes, bird lovers have their own site "better view desired"
They are very knowledgeable about their choice of binoculars, I recomend this site, it is very interesting.
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I second that. That is the tool of their trade and they are a serious bunch. Likewise, I have never bought a pair of hunting boots, a backpack, first and second layer closing....that was not recommended by hikers/mountaineers. No need to reinvent the wheel.
 
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