Recommendations, Men...

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One Lung Wonder

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Glad you could make it to the meeting, gentlemen! :)

I need your two cents, if I may. I've done the black rifle thing forwards and backwards. AR15 standard rifle, HK SL8, Tavor, and just recently, Robinson Arms XCR-L. The AR was fine but restricted, and the others looked cool bud just didn't seem to fit. (Not to knock your rifles, boys - I've seen some of ya shoot and you seem to get along with these guns just fine). I was forced by my old school mindset to go to the Springfield M1A match gun for my serious range work. This gun also allows me to annoy the living hell out of the other old stubfarts in hunting camp with their beautiful and accurate bolt guns or their lightweight sporters.

But I am getting pulled again by the black gun...this time by the PDW's and SBR's. How many of you have been around the block with the black guns as I have? Did you run across these stubby AR's in your travels? Are they fun guns or should I pass on them? I am all over the ballistics and performance of these guns and willing to accept them at face value...my concern is with muzzle blast. Are these guns fun to shoot or a PITA?

I need a quick response, gents. When I get the gun fever I tend to lose my chit and go running and gobbling into the store demanding that they take my money...:(

You'd think a fella would learn after 30 years of doing that wouldntchya?
 
I have a 10.5" AR. Does that count? Only AR I own. Doesn't use a brake, just the stock flash supressor. No issues at all. They reach out to 100yds in TAC match situations quite nicely. Not a target gun but I wouldn't stand in front of it at 300yds!
Love how light and maneuvarable it is. Basically an AR that you are already familiar with, just with a stubby barrel!
Mine's a VLTOR btw.
PS. I've heard PDW and SBRs with brakes. They are not noticeably louder than any other AR with a Lantec.
 
I've done the 7.5 PDW, it's cool as chit, hits the gong at 200 with out changing zero on a red dot.

It is now gone off to the land of sold it on the EE....

My "short" AR is a 10.3". Still an amusing flamethrower, but the additional 300fps gets me to 12" gongs out to 300..... But it really is a 100y- range toy.

I have 6 ARs wearing uppers, 12", 14.5", 16", 18.5 & 20", as well as a 22. All of them in 223/556.

I find that they are like lays potato chips.... You can't just have "one"!

To paraphrase Barney;

"don't buy one, buy 2!"

"Get it or your #### will fall off!"

Cheers!
 
10.5 AR is a great size! I have one with a very blasty muzzle brake and I love shooting it.
My first introduction into black rifles was with a csa vz.58 with a 7.5" barrel! It was a detonation with every trigger pull haha!

I have a 7.5" NEA coming in the mail. Hope that's all fine and dandy. (with 3 xcr pistol magazines)

Another amazing rifle is the xcr micro in 7.62x39. It has a super short barrel as well and runs 10 round mags

:jerkit:
 
7.5 and a 10.5 upper. Both of them are wearing linear comps which seem to help with the blast. Puts it forward a little more. Both are good 100 yard guns. They are what they are. They're sure not sniper rifles, but they weren't meant to be. They are fun toys to play with at the range, and take to the odd 3-gun
 
10.5
Made the mistake of putting a PWS-FCS556 break on it. Felt like someone was hitting me in the nose every time I shot. swapped it out with a SPEX and made it a lot more enjoyable to shoot.
Was an accurate shooter too. (Didn't reach out further then 100 meters though)

Currently using an 18inch with full length gas system the most. But that is because of 3 gun.
 
I've owned a 6.5 inch, a 10 inch, a bunch of 12 inch, a 14.5, a 16, a 18 and a 20 inch.
The 6.5 inch was accurate and fun but the muzzle blast was crazy even with a linear on it the novelty wore off fast.
The 10 inch was a nice basic Armalite and it was fun but just wasn't quite what I wanted so I sold it to a buddy for a great price.
I currently own a 12 inch in 9mm, another in 223, and another in 300BLK. I think it is kinda obvious that 12 inch is my favorite barrel length for an AR. It provides a good balance of muzzle velocity and still remains light weight and maneuverable.
The 14.5 was a great little rifle but I got a trade offer I couldn't pass up and now own an Elcan Specter DR instead.
The 16 inch is my latest build which I put together to use when I get time to get into 3-gun.
The 18 inch was a heavy stainless ATRS barrel that was incredibly accurate and smooth shooting but due to it's weight was pretty much just a bench rifle.
The 20 inch was a great rifle that was also extremely accurate but was just a little too long for my tastes. If I had gotten into long range accuracy shooting a little earlier I'd probably still have it or the 18 inch.

For a SBR I wouldn't go shorter than a 10 inch and even at that I would stay away from a proper muzzle brake. I put a Rainier Arms mini comp on my 14.5 and it was tolerable then I moved it to my 12 inch and it was painful to shoot. I don't like getting a headache from shooting so I sold the mini comp. For 10 inch or shorter I suggest a linear comp.
 
I agree that a 12 seems to be the magic number. Unfortunately theyre hard barrels to find. I've pretty much made up my mind to sell my 18 inch build to fund a piston 12 inch.
 
I have a 10.5" AR. Does that count? Only AR I own. Doesn't use a brake, just the stock flash supressor. No issues at all. They reach out to 100yds in TAC match situations quite nicely. Not a target gun but I wouldn't stand in front of it at 300yds!
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This perfectly sums up my experience.

15819695593_c6e4e8f43c_c.jpg
 
Well I done it. I screwed up; it's a Black Rain 7.5". I am a bloody meat head, I bought it strictly because it looked good. If the stubby shoots as good as my Tavor at 100 I will be a happy piglet.

Did you know the guys at Phoenix zinged me? I was hemming and hawing about buying it and asked 'If I bought it right now when would I get it?' I know full well those leather elbowed, lardassed finks at the CFC take at least 5 days just to pick their noses before rubber stamping an authorization. I know it!!!! But the sharpie behind the gun counter goes 'If ya buy it now ya might even be able to take it home today!' And I fell for it!!!! Goddammit!!!!

I shouldn't rag on the boys at Phoenix. I bought a Marlin Guide gun there 100 years ago with a manufacturing defect and the owner didn't even blink. He grabbed the defective gun back, slapped a brand new one in my hands and I was ready for the great outdoors before I even had time to think about it!! They stand behind what they sell and are solid fellas.

Now I just have to wait around for three ~ five anxiety-filled days while I wait for the wieners at the CFO office to do their thing.

Sigh.
 
I have a 10.5" and a 7.5", love them both and wouldn't want to have to choose just one of them. 10.5" is smoother and less blast, I have blast shields on both to help out also. The blast shields direct the blast and flame forward to minimize what is felt by the shooter and those around them. With just a brake its pretty crazy, the 7.5" being the real bastard of the bunch...Yes Its loud, yes its obnoxious, yes it might burn your eyebrows off, but that's what I love about it

I do all indoor shooting so I have yet to feel the need for anything longer then 10.5", I started short and Im still stuck here for now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPfE7j3BR18

One thing to mention is not all 7.5" are the same, I was at the range about 2 weeks ago shooting my 7.5" that I assembled myself, guy next to me was shooting a NEA 7.5" and the difference was very extreme between his and mine in terms of blast, loudness, and flame

Also when I run .223 in it its not nearly the same as 5.56
 
7" 7.62x39 XCR-L,
13" 7.62x51 XCR-M,
7.5" Vz58,
11" Vz58.

These four are my favorite guns. Love PDW-type guns. Too much fun. Had a 10.5" AR, but sold the upper, as I wasn't fond of the velocity loss in that caliber from the short barrel.
 
Just throwing this out there...You said you've done the black rifle thing already, and you also mentioned that your into the 308's as well....why not try to build a 12.5 308 AR15? Like a Noveske Leonidas 308 SBR? I'm not sure about the availability, but it would be a blast to shoot...
 
pbr streetgang said:
Just throwing this out there...You said you've done the black rifle thing already, and you also mentioned that your into the 308's as well....why not try to build a 12.5 308 AR15? Like a Noveske Leonidas 308 SBR? I'm not sure about the availability, but it would be a blast to shoot...
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Or an XCR-M Micro. They're awesome. And reliable.
 
One Lung Wonder said:
Well I done it. I screwed up; it's a Black Rain 7.5". I am a bloody meat head, I bought it strictly because it looked good. If the stubby shoots as good as my Tavor at 100 I will be a happy piglet.

Did you know the guys at Phoenix zinged me? I was hemming and hawing about buying it and asked 'If I bought it right now when would I get it?' I know full well those leather elbowed, lardassed finks at the CFC take at least 5 days just to pick their noses before rubber stamping an authorization. I know it!!!! But the sharpie behind the gun counter goes 'If ya buy it now ya might even be able to take it home today!' And I fell for it!!!! Goddammit!!!!

I shouldn't rag on the boys at Phoenix. I bought a Marlin Guide gun there 100 years ago with a manufacturing defect and the owner didn't even blink. He grabbed the defective gun back, slapped a brand new one in my hands and I was ready for the great outdoors before I even had time to think about it!! They stand behind what they sell and are solid fellas.

Now I just have to wait around for three ~ five anxiety-filled days while I wait for the wieners at the CFO office to do their thing.

Sigh.
Click to expand...

Alberta CFO will typically take 24 hours and you can get them to email you and Phoenix the paperwork to take it home next day. I've even been lucky a couple times and had them approve a transfer and give me a STATT in under an hour if you ask nicely.

Phoenix is a good shop/range, I should spend more money there but Tier One Armoury has become my new favorite shop and I spend most of my dollars there.

Good choice, it's a little short for my tastes but you'll have fun with it.
My 6.5 would shoot 2 moa at 100 yards with quality ammo, I'm sure your rifle will do similar which is better than the average Tavor or XCR ;) :stirthepot2:
PM me if you want to go run some rounds through it Monday or Tuesday. I have a couple new toys to test run as well :)
 
Might take you up on that CR! Provided that you promise not to tell everyone what a crappy marksman I am...

I have seen some of the shorty .308s, PBR. I may be mistaken but given the blast and recoil they strike me as rude little guns to shoot. Last year I was making a nuisance of myself up at the range in Grande Prairie and this affable old gent gave me a tour of the .300 Blackout he was shooting...and I decided right there that if I am gonna put a .30 cal in a squirt gun - that is the one I'll go with! The 308 in a shorty is for younger men with steadier nerves and better eyes than mine.

Speaking of which ... I have to find an optic for it. That's gonna take some time now too...
 
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