Red Dot Sight on Pistols - A Report

Ganderite

Ganderite

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Results of a 4 Year Handgun Red Dot Study by Sage Dynamics

Handgun red dot sights are all the rage these days, but also the source of a lot of controversy – much like red dot sights for rifles not that many years ago. As technology improves, micro red dots durability improves, and batteries last longer – the pistol red dot is only going to get more popular. At this rate, red dots on a pistol will be as ubiquitous as optics on a carbine.

To prove that point, Aaron Cowan from Sage Dynamics has spend the last 4 years conducting a study on the use of handgun red dot sights, specifically for police duty handguns.

The full study: “Miniaturized Red Dot Systems for Duty Handgun Use” – by Aaron Cowan.

It is a very comprehensive 64 page overview of everything Aaron found out within the study. For those who don’t want to read the entire study, then keep on reading here for my summary.

Original hypothesis
a MRDS is not only more efficient than traditional iron sights for the duty handgun, but that the MRDS would provide distinct advantages not possible with proper iron sight use.

If you want the conclusion now, Aaron has concluded that modern micro red dot sights for handguns improve speed and accuracy and are sufficiently durable.

Reliability
The testing conducted drop tests, impact tests, hot and cold tests, submerging in water, and live fire testing. The study includes specific numbers on page 16/17 for those who are interested, but it concluded the Leupold Deltapoint Pro and Trijicon RMR are the two most reliable micro red dots, which are often called reflex sites.

Interestingly, this handgun red dot study also found Energizer and Sony batteries cannot reliably withstand the handguns’ recoil, but Duracell’s batteries held up to a handgun’s recoil. Are many shooter’s pistol red dot reliability issues actually battery reliability issues?


https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-handgun-red-dot-study-sage-dynamics/

I have old eyes and open sights (rifle and pistol) are an issue for me. I put a 3MOA Burris on a M&P9 CORE and found my competition scores went up. My first shot was not always as fast (have to find the damned dot) but the accuracy improvement more than made up for it.

I guess I had better buy some Durocells...
 
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Yeah house league PPC, many of us are just shooting for fun now and switching to red dot on our pistols. And our scores were going up.

I just bought a Glock 34 MOS with a Burris FF3. To replace my Grand Power K100 with a under rail mount and a TRS25. Just was too bulky.
 
OkayShooter said:
Yeah house league PPC, many of us are just shooting for fun now and switching to red dot on our pistols. And our scores were going up.

I just bought a Glock 34 MOS with a Burris FF3. To replace my Grand Power K100 with a under rail mount and a TRS25. Just was too bulky.
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I stuck a Trigicon RMR on my K100 with and adapter plate made by Ameriguns. It's a lot of fun :) I'll give it a go in Carry Optics in some club matches this year
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OkayShooter said:
Yeah I followed your threads on the GP forum, 160 USD is bit much for a mount.
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Not cheap, but it works lol. The only thing I find is the higher sight-line over bore takes adjusting when I first post up. The hold-overs for targets at distance are a lot bigger than with iron sights too.

When I want to get serious in Carry Optics, I'll probably pick up on of these :)
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They've allowed red dot sights in bullseye shooting for some time.

I have a Matchdot II mounted on my GSP .22 and another on my GSP .32.

Still haven't put one on my .45 because the recoil is supposed to be hard on red dot sights.
 
VanMan said:
Not cheap, but it works lol. The only thing I find is the higher sight-line over bore takes adjusting when I first post up. The hold-overs for targets at distance are a lot bigger than with iron sights too.

When I want to get serious in Carry Optics, I'll probably pick up on of these :)
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Yeah I tried some places in Canada and they just told me to get a RX ready pistol.
 
Some of it I thought was common sense but other parts were very interesting, particularly the part about batteries. I never would have thought to test different brands. I think durability stopped being a concern when several militaries began placing red dots on general issue weapons; if they can survive daily use on a primary weapon they'll survive in a holster.

The one thing I have no doubt about is that they are the future. Conservative estimate is 50% of the people at my range use them and it's only trending up. Just wish I'd bought a few aimpoints when the dollar was par a couple years ago.
 
HammerliSP20 said:
They've allowed red dot sights in bullseye shooting for some time.

I have a Matchdot II mounted on my GSP .22 and another on my GSP .32.

Still haven't put one on my .45 because the recoil is supposed to be hard on red dot sights.
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there are red-dots like my Venom that are mounted on the slide of handguns.
they're supposed to withstand 1000G acceleration or something :)
 
I just put a vortex on a 1911 45 before Xmas with a Burris mount that runs about 50.oo, The Vortex came with a weaver mount, that I took off when I got the Burris mount for the slide, Novak dovetail, works good.
I did have a bit of trouble with the first sight, the automatic would cut off, and sent it back and got a new one, ran a box of ammo through it and seems fine .
The first one I had zeroed in good and made a hell of a difference with 75 yr old eyes, just indoor bulls eye, steel should be interesting, just fun shooting .
there was a boxing day sale At S-J hardware, they where selling Sig 226 mounts for the vertex, Burris fast fire, and Leopold red dots for 100.oo off =50.oo, so now I need another sight to put on my Sig 220, it looks like it should work fine , same dovetail All those sight use the same mount pattern, the cadex mount is a bit heaver built than the Burris, but with the Burris mount , the center of the sight is not much higher than the open sights
If I was not so old school, I could post a picture, but my old stupid phone is not smart enough for that.
I think on a 22 target guns they would be super, next project
 
I really want to like RMRs, I really do! But I found I cannot get used to “looking” higher for the dot. I also find the dot wavers too much in my shaky (?) hands for accurate slow fire. They’re great, I imagine, for rapid fire and target acquisition but I’ve not tried that. I assume a learning curve, like Ganderite and Okayshooter mentioned.

If the article is right, getting a MOS set up with a Delta Point or Trijicon will easily drive the price of a quality gun into the $2000 range. The 320 RX is less but not sure about the Romeo sight.

I do believe that it’s the next evolution of pistol. But the present cost is a bit prohibitive for most shooters. Then again, I said the same thing when SoftSpikes first came out in golf and now all golf shoes have synthetic spikes!
 
legion, that is the same as mine , I have a 1911 9mm with a frame mount, will not work in a holster, the 45 is fine in a holster,
i have a cheap tasco red dot 2mil on it and it is fine indoors , out side in sun, it is hard to pick up the dot, and as it sits so high, I trouble finding the dot, I thinks on a 22 rifle it would be good.
The vortex is a 6mm dot and that is way better on the 45 , you can aim it a light and still see the dot, can`t with the tasco and cheap North star pos red dot, but that is onlt 50.oo so you get crap for crap money.
It did work on the 9mm O.K., thought it may puke it`s guts out, zerio did shift abit, but I thinks that is the cheap one screw mount (weaver)
TT1900, I think these sights are getting better and the price is coming down, so I don`t think you would have saved any mony 2 yrs ago, BTW, I am down the road from you s.c.
 
Stay Alive, I am not sure where you are coming up with that price , The Vortex I paid 300.oo on sale at whole sports on their sale, reg price is 350.oo, The burris fast fire is a bit less than that in price , but is a bigger sight.
than mount for what ever, 50.oo to 150.oo for high end cadex or EGW, but that burris dovetail mount works fine on a 45 acp
There is lots of expensive stuff out there I don`t know about, not sure what the one you talked about is
The Vortex verom also comes with weaver mount, so it you had a s-w victor or 22a, buckmark, it would clamp right on.
I have mount for s-w revolvers that may be interesting to try, years ago I had a Leopold pistol scope on a s-w k22 master piece ,ie (17) and that was a 50yr gun, think the scope is still around yet
 
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Still alive said:
I really want to like RMRs, I really do! But I found I cannot get used to “looking” higher for the dot. I also find the dot wavers too much in my shaky (?) hands for accurate slow fire. They’re great, I imagine, for rapid fire and target acquisition but I’ve not tried that. I assume a learning curve, like Ganderite and Okayshooter mentioned.

If the article is right, getting a MOS set up with a Delta Point or Trijicon will easily drive the price of a quality gun into the $2000 range. The 320 RX is less but not sure about the Romeo sight.

I do believe that it’s the next evolution of pistol. But the present cost is a bit prohibitive for most shooters. Then again, I said the same thing when SoftSpikes first came out in golf and now all golf shoes have synthetic spikes!
Click to expand...

Still Alive when I go south this summer I will bring my Walther down with the Vortex on it. We can get together at Chilliwack. My experience using a dovetail mount sent me to the PPQ Match because of the milled slide. I have yet to shoot the system yet but dry fire /draws would indicate finding the red dot to be much easier due to the lower mounting of the Optic. I am sure one could get used to the higher position of the Optic but given a choice I would recommend you look at a optic ready slide system like the CORE or for more money the Walther. SIG set up. The only issue with the SIG is you are married to their Optic which may or may not be what you want. The are faster but from reading on the OPSC Village Forum the move to Optic in USPSA has been slow as it has in IDPA clubs that I know about in the US. The Optic sight is the future particularly when you consider the ageing Baby Boomers eyes doing their cataract nonsense. Don't ask! :>)

Here is a sight I ran into on the Walther Forum:

http://www.shieldpsd.com/portfolio-posts/reflex-mini-sight


It just might be a game changer but it doesn't seem to come cheap.

What is it they say about men and boys...the difference being the cost of their toys.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Marshall and Bob,

I was briefly thinking of getting a RMR equipped pistol last year. My choice was a Glock 17/19 Gen 4. With the MOS option and the Trijicon RMR, the price was going to hit close to $2000 new. I’ve not looked at Vortex, C-More, Burris etc.
Not a big enough fan of another pistol to spend more money just to experiment with a reflex sight.
For now, a nice bright FO front sight still works well.
Like you said, Bob, cost of the toys!
Optics will be the wave of the future. I might be catching the last boat there!
Definitely PM me when you pass through town and you can be my guest at Chwk!
 
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I remember close to 10 years ago I stated this will start to be a trend in defensive/duty use and TDC laughed at that thought. Tried to find the post, but the thread must have been nuked.
 
Sinasta said:
I remember close to 10 years ago I stated this will start to be a trend in defensive/duty use and TDC laughed at that thought. Tried to find the post, but the thread must have been nuked.
Click to expand...


Well TDC aka KIDDX likes to stay right on cutting edge of the shooting scene with his trusty Gen 2 Glock safely holstered in his tacticool holster.

If we are still throwing sophisticated rocks at paper 30 years from now folks will look back at iron sights and wonder how their grand dads ever put up with the yucky smoke and iron sights.

Take Care

Bob
 
Donno I use Energizer on both my ar and shadow RDS. Not a single issue in thousands of rounds. I swap batteries every 6monnths tho
 
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