Red dot sights

[hercster]

i would really like to put a set of 10 police trainees through training with a melted in rds setup and compare to 10 using iron sites and see what the difference in skill and scores ends up being

If I were equipping and training a group of LEO's and it was possible with the firearms at hand. I would install co witnessing irons with the RDS. Once your eye catches the front iron you will see the dot regardless of whether the front and rear irons are aligned. Finding the dot is the challenge that most face in the beginning with the RDS set up. I find that good presentation technique helps or is the key. When my grip and stance are good, the RDS dot is there and BANG!

 

[AbHobbyist]

Gentlemen:

If I may add, there is/was that thread started by Wicked police, and some interesting results wrt irons vs RDS.

While his setup may not be ideal, it does add some death to this conversation.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=676720

I hope this is helpful

regards and all the best

AbH

 

[heavenIsAlie]

I'm not sure about where, when or who but I think testing has been done with LEO and scores did dramatically improve with the RDS.

Bladetech is making a duty holster with retention for the FNP-45 with an RDS and their may be others. I know that Comp-tac was looking into the matter because I inquired myself.

I looked at three Mini RDS units including Burris, Leupold and Trijicon. IMO the Trijicon is by far the most rugged. If looking to mount a unit on a pistol with "suppressor" sights be aware of units that have adjustment screws on the rear as they will be blocked by the elevated iron rear sight. The Trijicon's elevation and windage adjustments are on the sides.

ive seen the RDS mounted where the rear sites are and the rear site mounted in front of it, fixes the lack of access to adjustment screws problem

 

[TACTICAL111]

I found a red dot difficult to use for a while. Almost bailed on it but glad I didn't.

Maybe 3-4 months of range and home practice to point/aim correctly/quickly.
Both eyes open.....it's brilliant . Just bounce the ball

 

[hercster]

I found a red dot difficult to use for a while. Almost bailed on it but glad I didn't.

Maybe 3-4 months of range and home practice to point/aim correctly/quickly.
Both eyes open.....it's brilliant . Just bounce the ball

I think that's the secret. Both eyes open and look at the target. Move the dot, BANG

 

[wicked_police]

Gentlemen:

If I may add, there is/was that thread started by Wicked police, and some interesting results wrt irons vs RDS.

While his setup may not be ideal, it does add some death to this conversation.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=676720

I hope this is helpful

regards and all the best

AbH

There are some new options being looked at by companies in the states regarding mounting. I really like the Micro, and think I'm gonna stick with it.

As I said in the thread linked above, my shooting was a bit off that day.... I'm going to do more comparisons, once i get a '-' connector in the Micro Glock. The trigger is a lot better in my iron sight gun.

 

[KDX]

I found a red dot difficult to use for a while. Almost bailed on it but glad I didn't.

Maybe 3-4 months of range and home practice to point/aim correctly/quickly.
Both eyes open.....it's brilliant . Just bounce the ball

Guys who regularly shoot black rifles with red dots might have a bit less of a learning curve.

 

[wicked_police]

The biggest difference between an RDS on a rifle/carbine and the ones currently being mounted on duty or fighting pistols instead of game guns, is the RDS doesn't move with the bolt on the carbine, like it moves on the slide of the pistol.

That makes it a little harder to track and find the dot on the pistol compared to the carbine, and also more difficult than tracking the front sight. That's the main reason the slide-mounted RDS on the pistol is typically slower at closer distances than irons.

 

[hercster]

I found that the RDS amplifies errors in technique for me. At first that dot really bobbles around. Aiming "with your hands" won't work very well but a good press towards the target does for me.

 

[Dave P]

Where do you get your slide milled?

 

[hercster]

Rds

Where do you get your slide milled?

The FNP 45 Competition and Tactical models are premilled and tapped.

 

[Dave P]

I have an m&p9 that I want to put a delta point on. There is a mounting kit but I like the co- witness suppressor sights.

 

[hercster]

I have an m&p9 that I want to put a delta point on. There is a mounting kit but I like the co- witness suppressor sights.

I'm not sure what can be done with your gun. The FNP 45 is a pretty big gun so there is room in front of the rear iron sight and behind the ejection port. On many guns the rear iron sight has to be removed so that the end of the slide can be milled for the RDS. The first time I saw this was a setup for a Docter RDS. The milling was not a simple job and from what I gathered would cost about $200.00.

In the FN line, the only guns that are premilled for the RDS are the FNP 45 higher-end models. This feature was one of the reasons I bought the FNP 45 Competition because the idea of the RDS co witnessing with the tactical irons really appealed to me.

Here is a shot of a JPoint on an XD

With the RDS that high, it would not co witness with the FS even if a "suppressor" sight could be installed.

 

[Dave P]

I wonder how much of a hassle it would be to send the slide to the U.S. ? Bowie tactical does this one.

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/delta-point-crop.jpg

 

[Dave P]

 

[25mm]

I really want to try one on my Glock

 

[cbabes]

After looking through the thread Wicked Police posted comparing irons and RDS on his Glocks one thing I take from it all is he has real f##king fun job! Envious!

 

[wicked_police]

There are days that my job is pretty good....

Shot the same stages again yesterday with the Micro-equipped Gen4, and did a little better than the original post where I compared irons to the Micro. Distances were 25m, 15m, 7m, 5m, and 3m (the 4 head shots were at 5m).

Just used one target though, and almost all of the shots out of the X were at 25m.

 

[hercster]

Mr. Wicked,

From your experience, what would be the impact on your results if the pistol were set up with a melted RDS and co witnessed "suppressor" sights. Would this improve your short range accuracy? I'm thinking that if the sights were co witnessed, tracking the dot would be just the same as tracking the FS.

I'm not sure if you have seen the Docter demo on line but that guy is super fast and accurate with his rig which was optimized for the RDS.

The Docter in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p1OR-3xjfc

 

[wicked_police]

The impact wouldn't be a lot different. The accuracy wouldn't change, but the speed would probably be a little quicker. Like you say, the shooter would be tracking the front sight, superimposing the dot.

Having a dot that co-witnesses with higher irons like DocGKR, as well as a lot of others now, would allow the shooter to use the irons up close, pressing out to the target and finding the dot at the same time, instead of hunting for it (which is what slows me down right now, with the limited use I have with it).

There's some new options coming out which allows the Aimpoint to be mounted lower, like the RMR and DeltaPoint are now. I'm going to go with that if possible. I'm sold on the Micro as a hard use optic, and after talking with some guys from Fort Bragg last fall, it's what they've found to work best for their use.