Reduced 308 win loads?

kamlooky

kamlooky

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Using 150 grain bullets and either IMR 4320 or IMR 4350 powders.
What is a decent formula for reduced loads?
We have a young chap coming into the sport and I think either 7mm-08
or 308 for a rifle.
I think he is going to have some size to him in a few years and think the
308win would be a good choice for him.
Need to come up with a load that will take some bite out of recoil.
 
4350 is a good choice. Many consider it to be too slow for 308. Many manuals have stopped listing it for this reason (though there used to be data for it). You can fill the case to the top and still usually be under max pressures.

However, having said that, at lower grain charges, it provides decent velocities and much less recoil. I have had wonderful accuracy with it in my 308.

45 grains is what I use. You could back that off another 2 or 3 grains, but you will be losing a bit of consistency in your burn at the lower pressures.

If it is a semi-automatic gas-operated rifle be careful that your port pressures aren't too high. Slow-burning powders are "late bloomers", and they have high pressures further down the barrel. It may be too much pressure for your gas system...

Alec
 
Using 4350 powder in a 308 with 150 grain bullets will be very inefficient and one could expect erratic performance.
I have very limited experience on chronogrphing the 308. The only rifle I did this with was a Remington 600, with 18.5 inch barrel. There was likely a 100 to 150 fps reduction in velocity with this barrel.
Canadian military ammo came out at 2715 average with this rifle.
Norma 204 is very similar to 4350. 53 grains of N204 gave a 150 grain bullet a velocity of 2630, so 45 grains of 4350 certainly would be a light and inefficient loading.
I would suggest you load about three only, of the 308 with 150 grain bullets and 43 to 44 grains of 4320 powder. Then take them to a friends range where a chronograph is available and see what speed you get.
Your friend told me he may be testing some 308 ammo with 150 grain bullets in a Schmidt Rubin with standard length barrel, so that would give you another set of figures to go by.
 
Suputin said:
I built some loads using the exact combination you are contemplating and the result was a massive fireball and loads of recoil. A slow powder is not the best way to build light loads. Try something a lot faster. If you want really reduced loads, go with Trailboss.
Click to expand...

^^^THIS. 10.5gr.-12.5gr. of TB with 150gr. bullets will be mild in report and soft on recoil.
 
I use 13 grains of red dot and a cast bullet in all of my 30 cal rifles. I started using this load so my wife could shoot the big guns without getting beat up.

This load has almost zero recoil and is very accurate out to 200 yards.
 
Lots of light bullet loads on Hodgdon's site. I'd be thinking 125's or 130's with your IMR 4320 instead of a 150. Mind you, the kid's size means nothing. Had a 5 foot nothing female Cadet who could shoot circles around most of the big strapping guys with either a C1A1 or a No. 4 Rifle. How one deals with recoil has nothing to do with one's size.
 
The OP is looking for a lighter hunting load in the 308, with 150 grain bullets.
12 or 13 grains of TB, or a shotgun powder, is not a hunting load.
I think he is looking for a load that would be just a bit better than a full power 30-30.
With a chronograph he could find exactly what he wants.
 
I'd be tempted to try .30-30 load data for 150gr bullets. It's about a 2/3 charge if talking about 4895 but I don't know how accurate it'll be.
 
H4831 said:
The OP is looking for a lighter hunting load in the 308, with 150 grain bullets.
12 or 13 grains of TB, or a shotgun powder, is not a hunting load.
I think he is looking for a load that would be just a bit better than a full power 30-30.
With a chronograph he could find exactly what he wants.
Click to expand...

Considering that there was no mention of the intended use in the original post, how are we to know?

If that's indeed the situation, then use reduced loads in H4895 as others have suggested. If you want optimal bullet expansion at moderate velocities then use .30-30 bullets. Easy peasy.
 
The Hodgdon site lists reduced loads for Hodgdon 4895 for .308 Winchester. Some powders are not safe to drop below the listed minimums.....don't know exactly why. Hodgdon says that H4895 may be reduced to 70% of the loads shown in the load tables without getting into strange pressure waves. They also give velocities for reduced loads on their site.
 
Looky, H4895 is your friend for this. The Hodgdon reduced loads work great. Here's the PDF sheet with their loads. I'd recommend using the 110 gr TTSX for a hunting load.

Edit - I can also spare you some of both (H4895 and 110gr TTSX bullets) if you want to try it out.
 
Thanks for the info.
I saved in under my favorites.
That 135 grain bullet weight has me nose twitch'in.
I'm going to try what I have here first and see what happens with recoil.
More a matter of interest to me for my daughter's 308win.
If I'm not successful there, then I will invest in the other ingredients.

And I really do appreciate the offerings.
The generosity of some members here is outstanding.........:cheers:

Barnes_270 said:
Looky, H4895 is your friend for this. The Hodgdon reduced loads work great. Here's the PDF sheet with their loads. I'd recommend using the 110 gr TTSX for a hunting load.

Edit - I can also spare you some of both (H4895 and 110gr TTSX bullets) if you want to try it out.
Click to expand...
 
I have also tried 12gr of Trailboss under 150gr bullets and got about around 1400fps and muzzle blast like a .22mag. Very good ammo to get someone new into shooting larger cartridges, but not quite a hunting load.

I have used 47gr of Varget under a 125gr Sierra (book minimum is 48gr). Accuracy was very good and recoil was quite mild. That would have plenty of oomph for deer.
 
Hey Looky, good to see you getting some new shooters started.

7mm08 is what all three of my kids used when they started to hunt. It's a great cartridge and very suitable for kids because it can be loaded to whatever level your youngun is ready for. 308 is good too, but hunting bullets in 308 start about 150 gr, and the heavier bullets generate heavier recoil, everything else being equal. Decent hunting bullets can be had for the 7mm in 120 gr and possibly less.

For a reduced 7mm-08 practise load I used the Sierra 120 gr SP COAL 2.695"
Trailboss: 14 gr = 1700 fps; 12 gr = 1500 fps

I used 38 gr of IMR4064 with Sierra SP 120 gr bullet, COAL 2.695". That is about 2500 fps out of a 20" barrel and plenty good for deer out to 200 or even a bit farther. That is not a premium bullet but it acts like one at 2500 fps and lower.

Biggest thing to rmember is not to buy a light rifle for a new shooter - light rifles "kick" harder. Felt recoil in a 6 lb rifle feels distinctly sharper and harder than a 7.5 lb rifle. I have a Remingtom 788 bolt action with the 18" carbine barrel. With the stock cut down an inch it fit 12-14 year olds pretty well. Later when they got a bit older a slip-on pachmayer recoil pad gave it a bit longer LOP. It's as close to perfect for a kid's rifle as i ever came across.
 
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My son started shooting Target Rifle competition at age 10. I cut down a 308 for him so it was lighter and would fit. We wanted accuracy and a light recoil.

The solution was the Sierra 125 Sp bullet, with around 34 gr of 4895. I don't recall the velocity, but I do know that it would only shoot well to 600 yards. Recoil was much reduced. You would have to play with power charges a bit to see what was accurate in your rifle.
 
jethunter said:
7mm08 is what all three of my kids used when they started to hunt. It's a great cartridge and very suitable for kids because it can be loaded to whatever level your youngun is ready for. 308 is good too, but hunting bullets in 308 start about 150 gr, and the heavier bullets generate heavier recoil, everything else being equal. Decent hunting bullets can be had for the 7mm in 120 gr and possibly less.
Click to expand...

Barnes makes a .308 TTSX in 110gr and 130gr - both are excellent hunting bullets suitable for reduced loads. As long as MV is around 2500-2600fps it'll do its thing out to 250 yards plus.
 
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