reduced load 270/7mm WSM for first deer rifle?

K

Kartman35

New member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Montreal
I'm in the early stages of planning to get into deer hunting here in Quebec, and have been reading online about rifles mostly for this purpose.

So far I've come to the conclusion that 7mm08 should be just about perfect and I do plan on loading my own ammo.

What I'm wondering about is if there's any downside (other than 1 less round in the magazine and 2 extra inches of rifle to carry around) in picking up a 270wsm (or7mmWSM however as far as I can tell only Browning offers this and they're not my first choice aesthetically) and reducing the load to match the recoil of the 7mm08? Would there be any loss in accuracy doing this? Would the barrel life still be shortened in a magnum firing reduced loads?

I would find it cool to have a rifle that could ease me into shooting with low recoil yet still have decent ballistics like the 7-08 and even better still have the ability to increase the range/power up to .270 win and then .270 WSM levels should I ever end up chasing a moose or just feel that the recoil doesn't bother me and want a flatter shooter?

What's wrong with my plan?
 
You don't need a magnum for deer hunting... I thought the same when I was younger and got my Browning BLR in .300 WSM. It kills deer just as dead as a .308 or .30-30. Just does more meat damage. I've killed several deer with, but is there need for nearly 4000lb ft of muzzle energy to kill a 180 pound deer... no! And to me, buying a WSM and trying to produce weaker loads just doesn't make sense. It's like buying a 650hp Corvette and unplugging 4 cylinders to make it less powerful.

Last year I purchased a Remington 700 CDL SF chambered in 7mm-08. I love that gun! I carry it deer hunting all the time. And also just acquired a Winchester 94AE in .307 Winchester. Those will be my go to deer guns now, the .300 WSM will probably stay in the safe this season.
 
Nothing wrong with your plan, except that you will probably end up at max loads faster than you think. A 270 WSM kicks about the same as a 7mm Rem with similar bullet weights , or 30-06. Most reasonably healthy people who actually want to shoot will handle will handle one without any issue. Reduced familiarizing loads won't hurt anything though and might even help if you are new to centerfires. You'd be able to get a few extra practice shots in per session.
 
Most WSM's will be extinct in a decade or so with brass or ammo unobtainable........like the .307 and .356 Win........JMO.....Harold
 
Browning_300wsm said:
You don't need a magnum for deer hunting... I thought the same when I was younger and got my Browning BLR in .300 WSM. It kills deer just as dead as a .308 or .30-30. Just does more meat damage. I've killed several deer with, but is there need for nearly 4000lb ft of muzzle energy to kill a 180 pound deer... no!
Click to expand...

This is why I'd want my rifle to fire a similar size projectile (ie .277 or .284) of similar weight (ie 130-140 grains) at similar velocity/muzzle energy as a 7mm08 for deer hunting. If a 270 WSM can do this then what I'd like to know is if there's any reason why it wouldn't perform this task as well as an equivalent model in 7mm08. If not why not purchase the more flexible option? Corvette's cost a lot more than lesser performing sporty cars these rifles are virtually the same price...

Much thanks for all the advice
 
Before anybody else makes the suggestion look at the 308 Winchester.
On the plus side ammo available and cost of that ammo.
To get into reloading is a costly venture and if you are concerned about the same cost of a rifle already then try out a proven deer cartridge first.
You should walk before you run.
What do the guys have that you will be hunting with?
A friend of mine's son had a 375 H&H and thinks it a great cartridge and it is but he can't afford a box of shells.

David
 
Ok...let me rephrase the question

Looking at the Barnesbullets website here: http://barnesbullets.com/files/2014/11/270-Winchester-Short-Magnum.pdf
and here: http://barnesbullets.com/files/2014/11/7mm-08RemingtonV9ForWeb.pdf

we can see that a 140 gr TSX BT fired from a 270 WSM at minimum loads comes out of the barrel between 2754 and 2861 fps depending on the powder chosen, while a 140 TSX BT from a 7mm08 at max loads goes between 2738 and 2939 fps.

Will the minimally charged 270WSM in the case above kick any more than the 7mm08 at max charge?
Is either of the two likely to be inherently more accurate than the other given the same mv? If yes then why?
If we can say that a regular load 270WSM is too much power and causes excessive meat damage at closer range than a 7mm08, would this load not make them equivalent in that regard?
Will barrel life in the above case be shorter for the WSM?
Will I likely be able to use either brass significantly more times?
Any other specific or tangible reasons my idea still stinks?

As far as availability of ammo, winchester brass is available at le baron in 270WSM but they have no 7mm08 I'd have to shop around for it or resize .308 i guess. I like to shop there...they have decent prices and often have "we pay the tax" sales...

Certainly .308 is another (perhaps more sensible) option, but somehow I feel drawn to the smaller calibers. Considering .270 win as well if anyone manages to convince me that my idea is truly stupid...
 
You have all the flexibility you need in a 7/08.The .308 is no more or less sensible either.

As for accuracy, if you are loading for hunting this is a point you need not get excited about as your hand loads when selected will be more than accurate enough in any of the chamberings.

Recoil, very likely be all very close if you are loading them down all else being equivalent.

Meat damage is caused by bullet construction not necessarily speed.Use a bonded, mono or partition type for less explosive expansion.

Barrel life can be shorter in a WSM, however, for the life of a hunting rifle, likely won't become an issue.

Brass life is shortened by resizing and stout loads.

100gr to 150gr for projectile weight is all you will need to harvest varmint and up to and including elk and moose.

140's going over 2800 ft/sec are the sweet spot for 7/08's.Like with anything pick the proper bullet and go hunting.

The only real world gain you will get from going .308 is the variety and assortment of factory offerings, however 7/08 is made by almost everyone now.When I bought my first 7/08 I had the choice of 120gr , 140gr, and 154gr from Remington and 140gr from Federal , now there is 10 times that .

As for your WSM plans, go ahead, just remember to buy quantity when getting brass or ammo.

I like my 7WSM and like my 7/08 , the difference? one uses a bit more powder to go a bit faster.I have the same projectile in each. 2790 in 08 and 2950 in WSM, both loaded for accuracy.The difference, nothing really aside from powder usage which is only 10grains and maybe brass life slightly.This is a 150gr projectile.

For deer and low recoil - Load up a 120gr in 7/08 for 2900-3050 ft/sec and you will have low recoil and dead deer for as long as you hunt, step up to 140/150 if you want to go after larger critters.
 
Last edited:
You could also consider a .270 Win..."regular" version. I load for one as low as a mild 110gr Sierra Pro-Hunter up to 3000 fps with a 150gr Partition. It will, from a practical perspective, do everything a .270 WSM will do.
 
The 308 was just a suggestion, It seems you have given the wsm cartridges some serious though and the reduced loads as well.
I recently reduced my rifle inventory and picked up a 270. That being said I hunt deer with a 257 and 243.
The 270 is a great round but to me it is not a bush round. My deer rifles have 20" barrels and the 270 has a 24".

Kartman35, you have not let us know regarding what the other hunters use for rifles that you would be hunting with.
I would look at the type of terrain that you would be hunting in as well.

Where I hunt long in length rifles are more of a hindrance. A nice short 7-08 would work well rather than a long 270 WSM. Weight is also an issue I do a lot of dogging and a heavy long rifle is a pain in the butt.

David
 
257Roberts said:
The 308 was just a suggestion, It seems you have given the wsm cartridges some serious though and the reduced loads as well.
I recently reduced my rifle inventory and picked up a 270. That being said I hunt deer with a 257 and 243.
The 270 is a great round but to me it is not a bush round. My deer rifles have 20" barrels and the 270 has a 24".

Kartman35, you have not let us know regarding what the other hunters use for rifles that you would be hunting with.
I would look at the type of terrain that you would be hunting in as well.

Where I hunt long in length rifles are more of a hindrance. A nice short 7-08 would work well rather than a long 270 WSM. Weight is also an issue I do a lot of dogging and a heavy long rifle is a pain in the butt.

David
Click to expand...

Yes, I've done a ton of reading on this and started coming to conclusions before coming on here to bother you guys with too many dumb questions...Truth is I'm getting way ahead of myself here I still have to pass a course, get my pal and start scouring the classifieds for a cheap .22LR. I'm not even thinking of this coming season.

As for hunting buddies, the only guy I know well enough to call up and ask questions hunts with a crossbow. To be honest even if I could go hunting with him I won't because I don't want to see what crossbow hunting looks like. I know a bunch of guys that I see every year at walleye opener on the Gouin reservoir are hunters that may or may not be willing to bring me hunting, but if not I'm sure I can find an outfitter worst case.

How about a .270 WIN with a 22" barrel ie Model 70FWT? This page from Nosler shows where they tested a 130gr .270 WIN with 10 different powders each with a minimal,mid, and max charge. Among the powders tested they indicate the most accurate powder, and in that powder, the most accurate load was the minimum one and left the barrel at 2909 FPS (right in 7mm08 territory).
http://load-data.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/pdf/270-winchester/270-Win-130gr.pdf

I do expect there to be a lot of dense forest to walk through and compactness will definitely be a plus, but in the Model 70 the 7mm08 FWT has a 22inch barrel too so only 1/2 inch difference overall vs .270. To get the 20"barrel in 7mm08 it's the compact one with the shorter stock. I guess I'd just have to pick one up and see if it feels too small or not. Might work though, I am only 5'6". Any inherent disadvantage to the compact rifle if it feels ok? Does the short stock make scope mounting an issue to have enough eye relief?
The 7mm08 compact is 1/4lb lighter than the 7mm08FWT which is 1/4lb lighter than 270 FWT

Thanks again for all the input guys.
 
Last edited:
The 270 that I bought is my third one. The other 2 were not what I was looking for. I wanted a featherweight but I went what I think is better and bought a Kimber american, weight is 7lb 2oz ready to hunt.
The featherweight is a nice rifle but I think a compact is a better rifle to carry, at least for me. I have a BLR in 257 Roberts but I mostly carry a Ruger american compact in 243.
This why I suggested a 308 To me it's all you need for just about anything in Canada, The rangers are getting them and from what I understand it is what they wanted.

It's not a bother to ask your questions there is a lot of knowledge on this site.
You have a bit to do before you start buying a rifle and a lot of time to think about and read hunting and rifles.
Good Luck on completing your Firearms courses.

David
 
Last edited:
Kartman35 said:
Yes, I've done a ton of reading on this and started coming to conclusions before coming on here to bother you guys with too many dumb questions...Truth is I'm getting way ahead of myself here I still have to pass a course, get my pal and start scouring the classifieds for a cheap .22LR. I'm not even thinking of this coming season.

As for hunting buddies, the only guy I know well enough to call up and ask questions hunts with a crossbow. To be honest even if I could go hunting with him I won't because I don't want to see what crossbow hunting looks like. I know a bunch of guys that I see every year at walleye opener on the Gouin reservoir are hunters that may or may not be willing to bring me hunting, but if not I'm sure I can find an outfitter worst case.

How about a .270 WIN with a 22" barrel ie Model 70FWT? This page from Nosler shows where they tested a 130gr .270 WIN with 10 different powders each with a minimal,mid, and max charge. Among the powders tested they indicate the most accurate powder, and in that powder, the most accurate load was the minimum one and left the barrel at 2909 FPS (right in 7mm08 territory).
http://load-data.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/pdf/270-winchester/270-Win-130gr.pdf

I do expect there to be a lot of dense forest to walk through and compactness will definitely be a plus, but in the Model 70 the 7mm08 FWT has a 22inch barrel too so only 1/2 inch difference overall vs .270. To get the 20"barrel in 7mm08 it's the compact one with the shorter stock. I guess I'd just have to pick one up and see if it feels too small or not. Might work though, I am only 5'6". Any inherent disadvantage to the compact rifle if it feels ok? Does the short stock make scope mounting an issue to have enough eye relief?
The 7mm08 compact is 1/4lb lighter than the 7mm08FWT which is 1/4lb lighter than 270 FWT

Thanks again for all the input guys.
Click to expand...

I'm 5.7, and usually prefer shorter stocks. Around 13 is the sweet spot for me but can go quarter inch either way.
 
Don't let anyone Tell you the 7mm08 wont do what the 308 will do..

reload stout projectiles for bigger game, otherwise its very hard to beat Varget and a 140gr Woodleigh projectile

WL
 
WhelanLad said:
Don't let anyone Tell you the 7mm08 wont do what the 308 will do..

reload stout projectiles for bigger game, otherwise its very hard to beat Varget and a 140gr Woodleigh projectile

WL
Click to expand...

I agree having played with the 308, the 7mm/ 08, my wildcat 270 / 08 , performance is so close almost like peas in a pod.
It becomes a matter of " take your pick " as they will all do the job and very well too.
And same for reloading, similar powders, similar results.
In hindsight the 308 Winchester sired a good family
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom