Reducing M14 Trigger Pull Weight

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LloydM

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I have heard plenty of suggestion on how to "smooth out" trigger pull, but very little on what can be done to reduce the pull weight. Smoothing out my trigger did help some, but I would really like to drop the weight. Any suggestions on what can be tinkered with to reduce the pull weight? Are there replacement trigger groups which can be purchased?

I have an extra hammer spring, and I am about to start nipping some off the spring to see if/how that helps? I would appreciate any imput before I go to work...
 
My old coach used to suggest exactly what you mentioned, cutting coils off a trigger hammer spring. That's all I know. I will warn however of the old strategy of stoning your hammer hooks... avoid it as much as you can.... even I don't know :eek: how to do such an operation because the heat treating is only 2 thou thick (the thickness of a MacLeans magazine page) and it's prone to softening and this will result in some surprises.... :rolleyes:

I will suggest though, that you obtain spare parts in case you mess up, I know I have! :D

:cheers:

Barney
 
Do not reduce the trigger pull below 5.5 lbs on an M-14 or an M-1 Garand.
This action, due to the weight of the bolt and other moving parts will be subject to out of battery or slam fires as a result. Also, you can't use either of these rifles for any recoginized competitions if the trigger will not hold a 5.5 lbs weight, there is a reason for this.

Scott
 
I see that the hammer spring has an influence on the hooks which catch the hammer when the trigger is pulled (name of part escapes me), so firing out of battery does seem possible if the spring was underpowered.
I only compete against myself, but I certainly don't want any out of battery firing; how conservative is the safety margin at 5.5 lbs?
 
Enough that the NRA large bore guys have set it at the lowest they will allow! They have been using these rifles for over 50 years now in competition, there is not much that they do not know. Don't try to re-invent the wheel, that limit is there for a reason.

If you want a nice 2 lb pull, buy a bolt action target rifle.

Scott
 
Just send it to Ron Smith or if you can't get him to work on it then PM M14Doctor and see if he can do it for ya. But ask the GURU himself said
I will warn however of the old strategy of stoning your hammer hooks... avoid it as much as you can....
Hungry
Click to expand...
 
Another way of reducing the tension of a spring without cutting it is to ground the outside of it evenly. I've done it successfully. Wheather or not this is the right thing to do, I don't know, But I used a screwdriver as a hub and had work gloves on both hands. Then using my thumbs as stops (as if I'm trying to break that shaft) took that spring to the bench grinder, and shaved off a few thousands of an inch off of it. Made sure the spring was always spinning with the stone, and kept it cold by dipping it in cold water after every touch, and checked with the calipars constantly. BUT, before you do this, as Hungry said, make sure you have an extra one in hand. I had total of three springs. One is cut off, it reduced the weight. Second is ground off, also reduced the weight. Third is untouched, just in case. Betweeen the first and second, the weight is the same, but the overall length and # of coils are different (if that makes a difference). I've yet to test these springs at the range and I'll not load more than 2 rounds at a time, just in case. More spring info at... www.imageseek.com/m1a/M14 Spring FAQ 042505.rtf
 
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What about match trigger groups?

m39a2 said:
If you want a nice 2 lb pull, buy a bolt action target rifle.
Click to expand...

No don't do that - that is the problem - after you get used to a 1lb jewell trigger on that bolt action target rifle, then 5.5lbs feels like 50.

I know someone who has a Springfield match trigger group that pulls at around 3 lbs. Does a match trigger group have some safety feature that the Norincos lack making it safe to go to 3 lbs while 3 lbs from a Norinco remains unsafe?

I am also not sure if a match trigger group comes with a lower weight to begin with or if their wight would have to be dropped to get 3 lbs.

Hungry?
 
In the clinic at Edmonton,Hungry suggested putting some valve grinding compound on the hooks and working the trigger a few (lots) times to break it in.If I remember correctly,just turned 50 so I'm starting to lose it.Just remember not too use a very course compound and make sure you clean it off really really good.
 
Kuhnhausen's book says to shorten a hammer spring to 2.0" free length, as part of NM conditioning procedures. This should reduce pull a bit. Stoning the rear hammer hooks DOES work wonders, and it is documented well in Duff's book. I have learned an even easier, similar method for stoning the hooks at a gunsmithing school in N. California. Either proceedure will reduce trigger pull weight, and can help to greatly smooth out the trigger. If you go too far, like 4.0 lbs, you can take emery cloth to the sear stop surface on the back of the M1/M14 trigger and increase trigger pull weight. I don't want to step on any toes here, but I have been shooting and accurizing M1 rifles for a while. The M1 and M14/ have lots of similar parts.
 
What mrd49 said!

Read the Kuhnhausen book,
buy a set of Smith oversize trigger/hammer pins,
and a set of new US GI Garand hammer and trigger from Italy.

And after you have honed your skills by practicing on the original soft, out of square Chinese parts, finish up applying your new skills to your expensive NEW Garand parts.

At our last M14 seminar, I demonstrated how to hone the trigger hooks with a fine SQUARE stone. This will give you absolute square hooks. A bit of 600 grit wet and dry sandpaper on a feeler gage for the inside of the sear edges, and voila ...
you too can have an M14 trigger pull that is the envy of all your friends,
and you don't have to break the bank paying a pro to do it for you.

Our new video on M14 tuning & tweaking will have a section on DIY trigger jobs.
It ain't rocket science, but it does require patience and skill.


PS: I have found that EVERY ONE of the NEW POLY/Bell 2009 M14 rifles I've played with recently, came out of the box with a decent, crisp trigger. This is a considerable improvement over the 2007 Norcs, some of which had downright HORRIBLE trigger pulls. That alone would justify buying one of the new POLYS.

of course,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
 
I'm not familiar with the Kuhnhausen book, but it sounds like a good read. A video would probably be better for teaching a dumdum fine stoning skills, so where does a guy get this new video?

In related news... my unmodified Norinco hammer spring is already shorter than 2". I took a new USGI spring and shortened it to the same length as the Norc, but being stiffer it did not produce a reduction in pull weight as compared to the Norc, so I shortened it by roughly another 2 coils. I don't have a trigger pull scale, but I would guess it is now sitting at around 3.5 lbs I have fired off 2 test rounds and it pulls pretty good weight wise but could use some smoothing out. I have not yet had a chance to get to the bench and shoot some groups to see how much better the trigger is, but once I do I will report my findings here along with the exact measurement of the hammer spring. Post #4 has me worried about firing out of battery - is there a real danger here or am I probably ok since it worked fine for my test shots?
 
I can see insufficient spring tension causing doubles (going auto?) perhaps under recoil... I've seen it happen with 1911's when guys tweak their sear spring too far (the sear bounces off of the hammer under recoil and it [the hammer] is allowed to fall / follow)... but I don't get how an OOB discharge would be a result...

Scott... what you talkin' 'bout Willis...!? Or put another way, please explain...

Dave.
 
there are ways to reduce trigger pull..... there are ways to increase trigger pull... there are ways to eliminate creep and produce clean crisp 2 stage triggers that are SAFE for use in your m14.

FACT an m14 trigger with a pull breaking at 4.5 and under is a FAIL ...... any trigger adjusted to 3lbs is no match trigger, it is a clusterphuck and should be replaced/rebuilt.

It is my opinion that without a proper understanding of the U.S. Armourers procedures for tuning and adjusting an M14 trigger group, one should leave it alone or find someone qualified to perform the desired work.
I sent a trigger group to smith to have them perform thier "Crazy Horse" match trigger upgrade. LAZ tried that trigger and hated it hehehe ..... ymmv

I build , tune and set ALL my triggers to 5.5lbs break, with a clean and drag free first stage. This is NOT achieved by shortening the hammer spring, However I always select a hammer spring with the correct 2.00" free length, no more, no less.

I am endeavoring to procure a sizeable selection of trigger parts and hope to be able to offer match trigger services at some point in the new year.

Your trigger group holds the key to your rifles safe operation and unless you have the skills, the tools, and the correct information...... adjusting your trigger is not adviseable.
 
FACT an m14 trigger with a pull breaking at 4.5 and under is a FAIL ...... any trigger adjusted to 3lbs is no match trigger, it is a clusterphuck and should be replaced/rebuilt.

It is my opinion that without a proper understanding of the U.S. Armourers procedures for tuning and adjusting an M14 trigger group, one should leave it alone or find someone qualified to perform the desired work.

What Thomas said times TWO.

At the Victoria M14 seminar, as part of the initial inspection/safety check, we tested six M14 triggers for weight. Five of the six were less than 6 lbs, and more than 5 lbs. One was a bit heavier. All of the triggers were acceptable for creep. They were all quite good for out of the box M14s.

We also took a look at the SAFETY,
and how to adjust the weight of the safety going on, coming off.

And actually,
LAZ did NOT say that he "hated" Thomas' very expensive Smith "Crazy Horse" trigger job ...
what LAZ said was that he liked his own DIY trgger job as much as the expensive Smith job, which cost a LOT less $$$.
of course,
trigger "feel" is a personal thing, and different strokes for differnt folks ..
YPMMV
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
LOL .... i sold that crazy horse trigger group ..... and now use one tuned myself... it does have the smith ent oversize pins in it though :D :D
 
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