Reducing the time delay with Flint Lock?

I appreciate the input on this, the reason for finding out more about flint locks is that I just got a home-made target flint pistol and I want to try and win a steak shooting up at Port Coquitlam and District Hunting and Fishing Club's Black Powder Day.
The lock produces lots of sparks and the touch-hole does not have a long tunnel into the charge so I am hoping it will be fairly quick to ignite. This pistol have a fantastic trigger pull..on par with my best guns. It is .45 cal. with a rifled barrel so I think is should be accurate.
I will post some pictures of my new toy soon.
Again thanks for sharing your knowledge on this subject.
 
MOONCOON; as usual, you are 100% right. The chain of the Wheellock was the hard part to duplicate, it being a very tiny roller-type chain which was perhaps 1/8 or 3/16 of an inch between pins. Just TRY making something like that when your only tools are a big hammer, a little hammer, a file and possibly a soft chisel.

Today, of course, you can buy chain of whatever specification you like, some types just perfect for Wheellocks, at a couple of bucks a foot.

As to the Pyrite, this is where the Wheellock has one advantage over the Flintlock: in the Flintlock, the ignition sparks are produced by bits of hot iron beaten from the Steel by contact with the Flint. In time, the Steel becomes worn and needs to be resurfaced and re-hardened. The Flint, meanwhile, beats itself to bits and must be replaced. The military used to count themselves doing well to get 30 rounds out of a Flint.

With the Wheellock, what was being eaten away was the Pyrite itself. Iron Pyrite (Fool's Gold) is FeS2; you can heat it up, drive off the Sulphur and you are left (in theory, at least) with crude Iron. Without modern furnaces, the Iron won't be much good, but it can be done on an industrial scale. But it was the actual Pyrite which provided the sparks and it wore away quickly due to contact with the serrated and hardened edge of the Wheel. Good Pyrite would give perhaps a dozen shots; much wore away even faster than that.

A Lock which would bear investigation is the Piper Lock. As far as I can find, it has never actually been manufactured, although it was described fairly thoroughly in his fiction by noted firearms authority H. Beam Piper. Piper was born in 1904, largely self-educated and a very fine writer of well-conceived action fiction with a lot of thought behind it. He died in 1964, death by suicide caused by poverty and depression. Piper wrote of this distinctive lock in several stories, the most noteworthy being his final novel, "Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" (1964). As Piper described the beast, it was a wheellock without a wheel and without a chain, using a SEGMENT of a wheel and an Arm holding the Flint to the serrated edge of the Wheel Segment. The action was much like the striking of a #### against the Steel of a regular Flintlock, except that the Wheel Segment was attached to a Tumbler, much as the #### of a Flintlock. The Wheel Segment bore against the Flint on its Arm. When the Trigger was pulled, the Sear broke clear of the Tumbler as in a regular Flint or Percussion lock, avoiding the lateral Sear with which regular Wheellocks and the earliest Flinters were fitted. The Wheel Segment then did its quarter-turn tumble against the Flint, showering a steady stream of sparks into the Pan. Such a Lock would be simple to fit with both a sliding Safety and an automatic Pan Cover, thus providing a holster weapon with ALL the advantages of a Flintlock AND all the advantages of a Wheellock WITHOUT the expense. When we get the last of the machines moved into the workshop at Janice's little castle, I think it just might be fun to build a Piper Lock.

It bears investigation, if nothing else.

Legally, it is a combination of the better features of a Wheellock and a Flintlock. I really cannot see it as being restricted.

Hope this helps.
 
If interested I modern wheellocks, look at the muzzleloading forums for threads and tutorials by a Polish chap with the boardname Razpla. His work is outstanding.
 
Flintlocks can be quite fast as long as you have a quality flint hitting a well hardened frizzen at the correct angle at a stout velocity.

Its not rocket science or a diabolic art its just maintenance and thought, my bess can fire in the rain without any issue.

That said if you shoot it alot in 1 session the dirtier it gets and the more battered your flint becomes the slower and more erratic your ignition will be, why....because your musket will be full of gunk on all the wrong places.

But if you keep wiping your frizzen face and flint, quickly stab the touchhole you should be able to fire just fine until your flint is battered to a useless nubb

My bess, charleville and baker all have excellent ignition with a clear toughhole, good secure black english flint and clean frizzen face.
 
I appreciate the input on this, the reason for finding out more about flint locks is that I just got a home-made target flint pistol and I want to try and win a steak shooting up at Port Coquitlam and District Hunting and Fishing Club's Black Powder Day.
The lock produces lots of sparks and the touch-hole does not have a long tunnel into the charge so I am hoping it will be fairly quick to ignite. This pistol have a fantastic trigger pull..on par with my best guns. It is .45 cal. with a rifled barrel so I think is should be accurate.
I will post some pictures of my new toy soon.
Again thanks for sharing your knowledge on this subject.


To test the ignition just go into your garage, prime the pan and trickle a few grains down the tube, not enough to make a bang just enough to flash and get the basic bugs worked out until your shoot!!

Sounds cool!
 
Its not rocket science or a diabolic art its just maintenance and thought, my bess can fire in the rain without any issue.
.

It is if you try to build a lock from scratch, even appearing to copy a well designed one :>) :>) A good strong mainspring does seem pretty important in getting enough speed to the flint. A lot of original bess locks had enormously strong mainsprings but I also think they only got 10 or 12 shots out a flint

cheers mooncoon
 
Delay can not be gotten rid of. Black powder travels slower than smokeless (which expands in a defined direction depending on shape) and it must travel through the touch hole.
Wrong wrong wrong. Pour a train of holy black and pour a train of smokless. Touch em off See which one goes up quicker.
 
Can't make it to the range today,lots of snow and no 4X4 ..starting to see why people buy those things.
I looked a my Pedersoli Queen Anne .50 cal. flint pistol and there is about a 1/4 inch channel leading to the chamber, this is the gun that prompted this thread...the delay is pronounced.
This is sort of a "pirate pistol" anyway..no sights and smooth bore but it is a hoot to shoot and always gets a few laughs at the range.


 
Can't make it to the range today,lots of snow and no 4X4 ..starting to see why people buy those things.
I looked a my Pedersoli Queen Anne .50 cal. flint pistol and there is about a 1/4 inch channel leading to the chamber, this is the gun that prompted this thread...the delay is pronounced.
This is sort of a "pirate pistol" anyway..no sights and smooth bore but it is a hoot to shoot and always gets a few laughs at the range.



Your "Fix" could be as simple as installing a coned vent insert of the "White Lightnin' type for about $4 and half an hour in the shop
 
I use 1/3 full pan, all at the outside of the pan(well away from the hole), no powder in the flashole(always check it with the pick), and a good sharp flint. Fast reliable ignition in my Lyman GPR.
 
Great looking pistol!! Thats the pedersoli Queen Anne.

Dont let the lack of sights discourage you, My bess only has a bayonet lug and shes able to hit a man sized target at 75 yards when I do my part.

Just putting powder in the pan, how is the ignition? If its fast you may just need to open the touchhole a bit, if the pan ignition is slow it could be a old worn frizzen, dixiegunworks can send you a new frizzen.

Im of the thought that lots of prime is the way to go in most situations. 2f goex, give the frizzen a good cleaning with some rubbing alcohol and slap a new flint in her.

I bet you can tweak her into a real firecracker with some doin, pedersoli generally makes really good stuff.
 
Tlhe degree to which a lock sparks is in part due to the amount of carbon in and the hardness of the surface of the frizzen. For many replica guns, the frizzen is case hardened and when the casing wears through, the gun will more or less stop sparking. At that point you need to recase the frizzen and most people use Kasenite. To use it, you need to heat the frizzen red hot and maintain it that way for at least 3 minutes (by a clock) while covered with Kasenite. The carbon penetrates about .001" per minute hence a shorter time and you will have to recase much sooner. The location that the sparks fall to is based in part on the length of the flint and where you pile the priming powder will be governed by that. How much priming is going to be governed in part by how well your lock sparks and how well the flame goes in the vent hole although in a perfect world, no powder above the vent hole is the fastest option
I would expect a good shooter using patched round ball in a Bess to be able to shoot a group of about 4 - 5" at 75 yards but it takes a lot of practice. Finally a friend of mine used to put a fridge magnet near the muzzle of his Queen Anne and use that as a sight. He claimed that it worked well although I am pretty sure he had to reposition it before each shot

cheers mooncoon
 
It has been well proven by empirical data that it is the radiant heat from the pan flash that ignites the main charge so to maximize that heat effect it is best to put a little extra powder nearest the flash hole but spread some all over the pan surface to be sure to catch sparks. Plugging or covering the vent with priming powder is definitely not the way to go. Small grains have a larger surface area - to - volume ratio so will ignite and burn slightly faster than larger grains but there are lots of other factors that have greater effect on fast ignition than the grain size of the priming powder as noted in some of the previous posts.
 
I checked in to the White Lightnin' vent and they are only $3.99 U.S. here is what Track of the Wolf wrote about them:

"Concave inside, this vent liner brings the main powder charge very close to the incandescent heat of the priming flash. Position the vent on the center of the pan, slightly above the pan to frizzen joint, sometimes called the "sunset" position. Covered by the frizzen when closed, the hole is a window centered on the heat of your priming flash, for instant ignition, without the whoosh-bang delay, seen in many flint guns."

I have access to a really good shop but the pistol is Restricted so I can't take it anywhere except the range, if I take the barrel off I wonder if it would be legal to take it to the shop to install the vent liner???
 
Not quite. Although I am in Alberta, my Restricted ATT allows me to take it to a permitted range, a gunsmith for repair, and to the provincial boundary if I am taking it to a shoot outside the province. Check to see what your ATT allows. As a last resort, get a Temp ATT from your CFO to take it to and from the gun shop. It really is a simple installation and will be your cheapest and likely most effective improvement. Let us know how you make out...
 
Delay can not be gotten rid of. Black powder travels slower than smokeless (which expands in a defined direction depending on shape) and it must travel through the touch hole.
Black powder burns very very fast. That is why it is classified as a low order explosive and not as a propellent like smokeless powder. It is heavily regulated in Canada and because of this it is almost impossible to find anywhere. I believe E Epps stocks it, As to my flint lock I have a very good RPL lock and a white lightning vent liner. There is no determinable delay. The #### comes down on the frizzen and the rifle goes boom instantly. If you are careless about your loading procedures, yes there may be a delay, or a hang fire.
 
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