*Regimental Enfields*

Vimy Ridge

Vimy Ridge

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Okay, so let's see what Regimental Enfields are out there. It would be interesting to see anything with Regimental markings on the brass ID disk. Long Lee's, SMLE's, Pattern 14's, M1917's, trainers, whatever you've got! Share some pics and the story behind the rifle.

"SMLE's that have marks, stamps, letters, symbols or numbers on or near the buttstock marking disc or receiver that indicate ownership or use by a regiment, police, militia or para-military organization of any country."
 
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Great thread idea. I have two regimentally-marked Lee-Enfields, a 1902 RIC Carbine and a 1940 BSA No.1 Mk.III, both purchased off the EE here.





The RIC was accepted into Royal Irish Constabulary service (go figure) in April 1904, and assigned rack number 3891. I assume it was used by the RIC through the Anglo-Irish war before being sent North after 1921 to be used by the RUC until it was sold out of service when more modern weapons became available.



The No.1 Mk.III was issued to the 26th New Zealand Infantry battalion when they left England for Greece in 1940. They barely missed the Battle Of Crete, but made it to North Africa for Tobruk and El Alamein. They were then shipped to Italy for Monte Cassino, before being attached to Canadian I Corps for the assault on the Gothic Line. They ended the war in Trieste, stopping Tito from absorbing the city into Yugoslavia. After returning to New Zealand after the war, it was FTR'd by Lithgow in Australia.
 
I've got this RCAF marked No1 MkIII - I'm not sure what the MG 5 means?


100_4990.jpg


And shown here, with my RCAF marked P-14, and RCAF marked No4 LongBranch


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Regimental markings

This is on a 1916 MKIII* Canadian issued rifle I own. Research tells me it's to the 1st Canadian Permanent Machinegun corp. 5.20 (date) 402 (rack#?).
Apparently this unit existed from 1920-22, being formed from the C.M.G.C. in the Great war. My Grandfather served with the machinegun corp from late '17 to end of the war. Prior to that , 1915-'17 he was a rifleman in the trenchs with the 20th Battalion. I'd dearly love to have a Ross or SMLE issued to the 20th!
Geoff
Dsc02365.jpg
 
I have a No.1 Mk.3 SMLE 1917 year with tons of stamps on it, but none on the round disc like all the others. Most of the stamps I can't make any sense of, but at the back of the receiver just to the right of where the bolt slides in there is a "GG" there, which I have found could mean it was used by the Grenadier Guards, who fought at Ypres in 1917 and several other main battles. There isn't a C in front of the GGs which would have meant the Canadian Grenadier Guards who fought at Vimy Ridge, and Ypres and all the other really nasty battles. I'm still researching the other stamps, but I think this is a pretty cool rifle and am de-sporterizing it to bring it back to it's former glory.
Sorry no pics, can't be bothered to open a photobucket account or whatever and get tons of spam email forever after.
 
Speaking of regimental disks, did anybody here pick up a smle from collectors source a couple of years back with a disc marked SAGRES? If so please pm me.
 
jimpruner said:
Sorry no pics, can't be bothered to open a photobucket account or whatever and get tons of spam email forever after.
Click to expand...

Jim, I've had a photobucket account for months now, and have never received any spam whatsoever.
And here's a pic from my photobucket, I still haven't a clue about the disk markings on my P14:


DSCN1177.jpg
 
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Here's mine

P1010059.jpg


This one is a 1916 SSA marked no1 mk3*,all matching,rarest SSA year.Marked to the "East Kent Buffs"

P1010058.jpg


This is a 1915 Enfield no1 mk3,all matching,volley sights,cutoff,marked to "Denstone College" officers training school

P1010055.jpg


This is a 1918 SSA no1 mk3*,matching,AJ Parker target rifle,with BSA barrel,twin zero target sights,marked to "royal canadian artillery", C broad arrow marked

p1010049.jpg


This is a 1915 Enfield no1 mk3,matching,volley sights,converted to SHT.22 mkIV ,canadian marked target sight,marked to "RAF"

p1010053.jpg


This is a 1918 NRF(national rifle factory),no1 mk3*,matching,FTR 1942,C broad arrow marked,marked to (PEI Highlanders)

p1010057.jpg


This is a rare ShtL.E. ConD. IV,all matching,converted from a 1896 mkI Enfield in 1907,volley sights,cutoff.Not sure about the markings on the butt tang.Anybody have any ideas?

Will pay handsomely for a no1 mk3 marked to the Newfoundland regiment!
 
skirsons said:
I don't know what many of these markings mean!!!
EnfieldSht22IV3.jpg
Click to expand...

Through PM with skirsons, he has told me that this rifle is dated 1918 and has been converted to a No2 MkIV in .22LR. This is speculation and it could just turn out that it's rifle rack #27! :p However, I'm going to take a stab at this one, based on the "27" and the C broadarrow. I think it's likely that these are original to the rifle. The following information helps to form my hypothesis.

"Virtually every Enfield rifle in use between 1903 and 1915 was stamped with a unique mark that indicated the regiment the rifle belonged to. The practice was briefly suspended during WWI, resumed at the war's end, then gradually fell out of favor until the practice disappeared in the 1950's."

".22 SHORT RIFLE Mk IV
Approved 19th November 1921 (LoC 24909) for Land Service, this rifle starts out with a used SMLE Mk III or Mk III* (like the 1914 Short Rifle No. 2, above) but uses a solid, not tubed, barrel. Total number of conversions done by RSAF Enfield unknown.

RIFLE No.2 Mk IV*
Same rifle as above; just a change in nomenclature adopted in 1926. This rifle was the principal trainer for the next thirty years and was widely produced by in Britain, Australia and India. Issued in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Ireland and India, a variety of issue and ownership marks can be found on these rifles. At least 30,000 conversions made by the various factories."

Given that this is a 1918 rifle and the 27th Battalion CEF was disbanded after the war in 1920, and that the conversions to No2 MkIV began in 1921 (although weren't officially designated No2 MkIV until 1926), this rifle would have been a good candidate for conversion as it would have become surplus to the army's needs.

27th Battalion cap badge:
Cefcap27.jpg


The Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) was formed in Canada from August 1914 onwards, the original battalions from units of the old Canadian Militia and Permanent Forces. Each battalion was numbered, the first formed being 1st Battalion Canadian Infantry. By the end of the war, more than 250 battalions had been formed. Although most battalions made it as far as England, only a few served in France and Flanders. The others were usually disbanded at a Training Depot in England, and the men sent as reinforcements to the CEF in France.

The following battalions served on the Western Front during the Great
War: (27th is one of them)

CEF
BATTALION: 27
NAME: WINNIPEG, MANITOBA
FORMED: 15/03/15
BRIGADE: 6
DIVISION: 2
DISBANDED: 15/09/20

A page of the 27th Battalion war diary, the complete war diary for the 27th Battalion found here:
http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/n...anada.ca/archivianet/020 15202_e.html&r=2&f=G
e000970614.jpg
 
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jimpruner said:
I have a No.1 Mk.3 SMLE 1917 year with tons of stamps on it, but none on the round disc like all the others. Most of the stamps I can't make any sense of, but at the back of the receiver just to the right of where the bolt slides in there is a "GG" there, which I have found could mean it was used by the Grenadier Guards, who fought at Ypres in 1917 and several other main battles. There isn't a C in front of the GGs which would have meant the Canadian Grenadier Guards who fought at Vimy Ridge, and Ypres and all the other really nasty battles. I'm still researching the other stamps, but I think this is a pretty cool rifle and am de-sporterizing it to bring it back to it's former glory. Sorry no pics, can't be bothered to open a photobucket account or whatever and get tons of spam email forever after.
Click to expand...

7GG.jpg


I do believe the stamping on this rifle is from WWII. I can't find anything with a "7" in relation to the GG in WWI. However, I did come up with this; (and yes the BEF was using No1 rifles in 1939/40) could it be the stamp of the 7th Guards Brigade, BEF?:

British Expeditionary Force, France 1939/1940
II Corps
3rd Division
7th Guards' Brigade (composed of)
1st Battalion Grenadier Guards
2nd Battalion Grenadier Guards
1st Battalion Coldstream Guards
7th Infantry Brigade Anti-Tank Company

march_to_dunkirk.jpg

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dunkirk.jpg

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Thanks for all the info, Vimy. I could always hope it's an old 27 battalion rifle!

Someone carved their initials into the stock as well. I wonder if this might have been done by the original issuee. I also wonder how many people with the initials RG were in the 27!
 
skirsons said:
Thanks for all the info, Vimy. I could always hope it's an old 27 battalion rifle! Someone carved their initials into the stock as well. I wonder if this might have been done by the original issuee. I also wonder how many people with the initials RG were in the 27!
Click to expand...

Not a problem, I'm going to suggest these if you want to research the guy's initials further:

From the Forks to Flanders Field, by Bruce Tascona (tasconab@mb.sympatico.ca), The Story of the 27th City of Winnipeg Battalion 1914 to 1919, 128 pages, $25.00 CAD, printed 1995.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/cef/001042-100.01-e.php

http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/html/default-en.asp

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/military/index-e.html

http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/cwme.asp

Canadian infantry of the 27th Battalion posed for a photograph in front of a Lewis Machine Gun
(both are sections from the same photograph)
400.jpg

398.jpg
 
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