Register antique 1858 Remmy?

89diesel

89diesel

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I was just about to start building a conversion cyl. (.45 colt or 44 mag) for my orig. antique Remmington when it occured to me that when installed, the gun would need to legally be registered.
Right or wrong?
 
.45 Colt is on the list of calibres that eliminates antique status. .44 Magnum is not. Nothing personal, but putting a cylinder into a 1858 Remington that would accept a .44 Magnum is, well, insane. Someone just might actually try to fire the thing with a .44 Magnum cartridge.
Apart from that, what are the bore dimensions of the revolver? Would any .44 (.429" bullet) cartridge work?
 
I had one that had a 44 Russian cartridge conversion cylinder and the bore was relined to .430 but there few and far between the 44 Russian ones. it chambered a 44 sp to.

The orignal 1858 Remys have a .454 Dia bore so if your not gona change the Barrel then 45 colt is the best cartridge.
45 Schofield is OK to but if the cylinder can Chamber a 45 Colt the guns supose to be then Registered.
If chamber throats were installed in the 45 Colt adaptor cylinder so the Cylinder can only chamber 45 Schofield cases (which are shorter) then it would be a perscribed antique still.

Its a bit of a nightmare job to do tho.
Getting the new Longer chamber throats to stay in the chambers isnt to easy.
 
tiriaq said:
.45 Colt is on the list of calibres that eliminates antique status. .44 Magnum is not. Nothing personal, but putting a cylinder into a 1858 Remington that would accept a .44 Magnum is, well, insane. Someone just might actually try to fire the thing with a .44 Magnum cartridge.
Apart from that, what are the bore dimensions of the revolver? Would any .44 (.429" bullet) cartridge work?
Click to expand...

I thought of the same thing.
Any factory round run thru this thing would pretty much fall under the "insane" category:D. I had worked a design that wouldnt allow factorys. It would only accept shortened brass.
 
A shortened .44 Mag. could be a .44 Special or .44 Russian, neither is on "the list".
But as Dingus has pointed out you want a .45, not a .44. .45 Schofield would be a way to go, make sure .45 Colt won't chamber. .455 could be another option.
 
There is an awkward solution; a lengthened version of the 11mm french ordnance revolver shell. I recently bought a S&W copy apparently chambered than way. The bore on my gun is .447 or 8 but the shell it is chambered for is a shortened 44-40 shell with no shoulder in the chamber. The shells that I loaded up for it used a 45 long colt slug with a heel turned on the base. The cylinder is too long for the factory loaded 44-40 shell and the chamber is too small for a 45 long colt shell. The published stats for the 11 mm claim it takes a .429 bullet but when you read the description in Cartridges of the World, they talk about sizing a .451 slug down to .448

cheers mooncoon
 
89diesel said:
I thought of the same thing.
Any factory round run thru this thing would pretty much fall under the "insane" category:D. I had worked a design that wouldnt allow factorys. It would only accept shortened brass.
Click to expand...

nothing insane about it.Those old Remingtons are tough.
the one Dingus is talkin about belongs to me now and will shoot factory Remington 44spl 246gr Express loads all day with no ill effects.
"Insane" is turning a fine old antique iron into a restricted... ;)
 
BrotherRockeye said:
nothing insane about it.Those old Remingtons are tough.
the one Dingus is talkin about belongs to me now and will shoot factory Remington 44spl 246gr Express loads all day with no ill effects.


"Insane" is turning a fine old antique iron into a restricted... ;)
Click to expand...

LOL i agree with that!
Most 44 Sp is loaded just a tad faster or hoter than 44 Russian.
I think them Remy frames are tough to, and any factory winchester cowboy 44 Sp in a modern made cylinder is not gona hurt the old canon.

Winchester makes a 44 Sp cowboy ammo thats loaded even lighter than regular 44 Sp i shot that in my long Cylinder 44 Russian S&Ws all the time.
Its basicly a 44 Russian load in a longer case.
I think its about 750 FPS for a 240 gr bullet.
Theres guys here that load there 44 Russians hotter than that.

Kinda a mute point cause i doubt you will ever find a 44 Russian cartridge Adaptor cylinder there rare as hens teeth now.
 
Buy the 45 colt adapter and turn it off for 45 auto rim then its still antique or build a custom cylinder in 45 scolfeild
 
It looks as if I stand corrected. .44 Magnum would be an appropriate conversion for an original 1858 Remington.
 
tiriaq said:
It looks as if I stand corrected. .44 Magnum would be an appropriate conversion for an original 1858 Remington.
Click to expand...

Whos Saying that ?

I was just pointing out 44 Special is OK it was fine in the one i had.
44 Magnum i wouldnt try that and im pretty game for most things.

Some guys load Black powder in 44 Mag cases and shoot them but your right one must be very carefull not to get a factory 44 mag in the gun.
I dont think the New Adaptor Cylinder i had would chamber a 44 Mag only a 44 R or 44 Sp.
 
1858 remington

Hi,being the the owner of two antique Remington Revolvers
-model 1858 old model army percussion
-model 1861 old model navy converted to 38 cal rimfire
I have to ask the following question.Why would you destroy the antique value & history of your revolver?.If you must turn a 1858 into a 44 mag centerfire,why not buy a repro,their resonably cheap & you would not be destroying a piece of firearms history regards-Cody
 
cody6 said:
Hi,being the the owner of two antique Remington Revolvers
-model 1858 old model army percussion
-model 1861 old model navy converted to 38 cal rimfire
I have to ask the following question.Why would you destroy the antique value & history of your revolver?.If you must turn a 1858 into a 44 mag centerfire,why not buy a repro,their resonably cheap & you would not be destroying a piece of firearms history regards-Cody
Click to expand...

That was pretty much my thought at this thread as well. Even though the cylinder pack would just slip in the risk of over stressing the frame with the quicker recoil of modern powders seems like a foolish thing to do to an antique. Far better to do this to a repro gun if you're going to do it.
 
BCRider said:
That was pretty much my thought at this thread as well. Even though the cylinder pack would just slip in the risk of over stressing the frame with the quicker recoil of modern powders seems like a foolish thing to do to an antique. Far better to do this to a repro gun if you're going to do it.
Click to expand...

OOOH boy! You kinda added a bunch to my idea that was never there.

I am going to use BLACK POWDER! No danger to the gun. Just using the cases for convenience and reloading. There would be no modifications made to the gun itself. The firing pin will be part of the cylinder.
As far as a repro gun, it would have to be registered, making this thread a moot point. I am not interested in owning a registered gun of any sort.

I also shoot my so called antiques. I have modified some, just because I like some of my designs better than the manufacturer's. To me, they're no different than any other gun/tool.

I'm sorry if I dont share other people's views on the "intrinsic value" of antiques. My house is literally filled with them (our newest piece of furniture is 1925) And everything is used on a day-to-day basis. Friends say it's like living in a museum around here.
 
cody6 said:
Hi,being the the owner of two antique Remington Revolvers
-model 1858 old model army percussion
-model 1861 old model navy converted to 38 cal rimfire
I have to ask the following question.Why would you destroy the antique value & history of your revolver?.If you must turn a 1858 into a 44 mag centerfire,why not buy a repro,their resonably cheap & you would not be destroying a piece of firearms history regards-Cody
Click to expand...

Finally somebody said and asked the obvious.
Anyone who would "convert" an original percussion revolver into a cartridge gun is beyond insane...the repro idea is the best thing...SELL THE ORIGINAL TO A REAL COLLECTOR...not some "gotta shoot it" kind of bubba.
Then buy a repro and do whatever the **** you want with it. If you are all horned up about not registering an antique firearm and want to shoot it...just because...here is good advise...sell EVERY antique firearm you have to collectors and buy a new Camaro, or Challenger or even a Mustang GT. Then drive around as fast as you possibly can...just because.
 
Alonzo-Apparently you dont understand the configuration of an 1858. The cylinder is removable by just pulling the pin. I am building a new cylinder. I am not altering the original gun in any way.

And besides, its just a $1000 gun.

p.s. the '08 Mustang has been in the driveway and FAST on the highway for a year now!:D
 
89 diesel.
I understand what your doing theres nothing wrong with it.

I understand your not wanting a modern gun cause its gota be registered.
You need Permits to move it all the B.S who needs that!

Its only foolish if you dont know about reloading and presures ect.
Your useing BP in cartridge cases thats fine.
Still 45 Schofield would be Best cause Tiriaq is right you would not want a factory 44 Mag getting in the gun by mistake by you or someone else.
Id get a 45 Colt adaptor one made up so it will only chamber 45 Schofield or even 455 Webley.

By the way guys they converted ORIGNAL 1858 Remingtons to Cartridge to eh back in the 1860s! Theres lotsa them about.
Who woulda thunk it eh!

All your doing is swaping the Cylinder.
you can put the Orignal percussion cylinder back in the gun anytime ya want theres no altering unless ya want a loading gate hole but ya dont need it.
some of the Adaptor cylinders need to come out to unload.
My Rogers and spencer Adaptor cylinder has 6 chambers with 6 fireing pins.
I can use that Cylinder or the Orignal percussion one.
It takes seconds to swap em with practice ;)
 
Dingus-You're right on the money about someone putting a factory mag shell in it. I've already addressed that previously, as I'm building the cylinder to accept ONLY shortened cases making sure no other shell would fit.

I have been mulling over that Schofield idea. As I havent started milling yet, I may rethink my plan. My reason for going with shortened mags is my brother doesnt reload, and can keep me in good supply of once-fired 44 Mag brass to the tune of 5-6000 so far!
 
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