Relationship Between H 4350 and IMR 4350
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
Awwww i missed whatever nugget of wisdom he dropped here...
Interesting discussion on burn rates. I have nothing to add to the discussion, but it's enlightening to read a discussion such as this for a young guy like me. (I wonder if i can fit the word discussion in there another time? Lol)
Several different medium burning rifle powders are so similar that for practical purposes, the same amount of either can be used. Many years ago I discovered that war surplus powder that Hodgdon's called H4831 had the same effects as Norma 205. When I discovered that with the same bullet, either 130 or 150, in my 270 and the same weight of powder, either H4831 or Norma 205, no difference in drop could be detected at 500 yards, I just considered them as equal. I sometimes thought the 205 had an inch less drop, and yes I did make the odd MOA group at 500, and this was long before the computer could be used to tighten groups! Ever since, I have interchanged loads between the surplus H4831 and N205, but 205 usually gets the nod, because of its much greater density. The modern H4831 is slower burning than the old surplus.
I found the same correlation between IMR4350 and Norma 204, so I will interchange those two anytime, but in this case 204 does give a bit better velocity.
When I was building loads for a 7-08, two powders I was using was Norma 203 and IMR 4064. I soon discovered that the same amount of either powder gave the same readings on the chrono, well within the allowance for tolerance of the machine. and this was with several different weights of bullets.
I have an old Norma loading chart where they use both Norma and US powders. With the same bullet in the same case, they rate the exact same pressure and exact same velocity, but 2/10 of a grain difference between weights of either N203 or IMR4064.
And that is well within the caveat I used of, "for practical purposes." Several other powders in this area will be between 1 or 2 grains of being the same.
I found the same correlation between IMR4350 and Norma 204, so I will interchange those two anytime, but in this case 204 does give a bit better velocity.
When I was building loads for a 7-08, two powders I was using was Norma 203 and IMR 4064. I soon discovered that the same amount of either powder gave the same readings on the chrono, well within the allowance for tolerance of the machine. and this was with several different weights of bullets.
I have an old Norma loading chart where they use both Norma and US powders. With the same bullet in the same case, they rate the exact same pressure and exact same velocity, but 2/10 of a grain difference between weights of either N203 or IMR4064.
And that is well within the caveat I used of, "for practical purposes." Several other powders in this area will be between 1 or 2 grains of being the same.
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
well my burn rate chart shows IMR 4451 in the middle of IMR4350 and H4350
If you really want to light that 300 up with 180s try IMR 7828 or RL 22................"]If you find something that works well for you, keep to it."[/..........now where the hell's the fun in that, I have several rifles that I have adopted that attitude with that are working 110% but it's the other 150 I have to play with that are driving me crazy. Then just when I think I have a load working just right, they come out with a new powder that is supposed to be just the "ticket" for X cartridge and away I go again..........Boredom does NOT exist in my life..........not enough time in a day, on the other hand..........
Bruce, the nice thing with N205 was that when one ran out of space with H4831, you could get another 5 grains of N205 in and gain the significant velocity of the more dense and finer grained powder and still be within safe pressure limits.
Bruce, the nice thing with N205 was that when one ran out of space with H4831, you could get another 5 grains of N205 in and gain the significant velocity of the more dense and finer grained powder and still be within safe pressure limits.
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The burning rate coefficient during the beginning of combustion (of the outer layer of the granule) for H-4350 is 0.5130, for IMR 4350 its 0.5150.
The variance from lot to lot of these two powders can be, and quite often is, greater than the difference in between H and IMR.
Also, the burn rate varies with the pressure it is burned at, eg: the less overall peak pressure, say 50k will have the powder act 'slower' than at 60k.
So, powders are more true to their burn rate when consumed at normal pressures ~55-60kpsi.
The variance from lot to lot of these two powders can be, and quite often is, greater than the difference in between H and IMR.
Also, the burn rate varies with the pressure it is burned at, eg: the less overall peak pressure, say 50k will have the powder act 'slower' than at 60k.
So, powders are more true to their burn rate when consumed at normal pressures ~55-60kpsi.
He was already to jump in and expend his great wisdom upon us.........but then he must have actually read more of the thread and decided us Philistines/Cretans unworthy of his expansive knowledge and wisdom...........Now we shall never know the real truth of the matter at hand.
Well aren't you a big help, as if two with the more or less same characteristics isn't confusing enough, you've got to throw in a third one.......thanks a f**king lot........
Remington/DuPont setup the powder factory in Australia but over time the Australians improved the powders at the request of their military.
After Remington lost the contract to produce ammunition at our Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in 1982 they fell on hard times. The IMR powders are now owned by General Dynamics Weapons Division.
The same thing happened to Winchester/Olin, the only chemicals Olin makes now are for fertilizers. And Winchester sold off their brass manufacturing plant and no longer makes its own brass.
The difference between H-4350 and IMR-4350 is the Australian H-4350 has Vegemite in the powder mixture that makes it more stable.
P.S. The new General Dynamics IMR powders if you haven't noticed now have Vegemite in the mixture.
(you also will not find any Vegemite served in American Outback Steakhouse restaurants because it makes us unstable)
After Remington lost the contract to produce ammunition at our Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in 1982 they fell on hard times. The IMR powders are now owned by General Dynamics Weapons Division.
The same thing happened to Winchester/Olin, the only chemicals Olin makes now are for fertilizers. And Winchester sold off their brass manufacturing plant and no longer makes its own brass.
The difference between H-4350 and IMR-4350 is the Australian H-4350 has Vegemite in the powder mixture that makes it more stable.
P.S. The new General Dynamics IMR powders if you haven't noticed now have Vegemite in the mixture.
(you also will not find any Vegemite served in American Outback Steakhouse restaurants because it makes us unstable)
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
Well aren't you a big help, as if two with the more or less same characteristics isn't confusing enough, you've got to throw in a third one.......thanks a f**king lot........
just cant get enough IMR.
Oh and I can read post that have been edited
(Ron AKA)just cant get enough IMR.
Oh and I can read post that have been edited
Care to share?..........Probably against the rules eh............Oh well, I can only imagine that it was probably very informative and profound..........
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You again..........with your GD computer whiz sh!t........I thought I told you to take your computer sh!t and stay off my threads with it.........
..........thought you were going to put me on "ignore"..........PLEASE......You again..........with your GD computer whiz sh!t........I thought I told you to take your computer sh!t and stay off my threads with it.........
WOW, +P+++
Your embarrassing yourself with such comments.
It's not to late, I can help guide you through some 1987 technology.
Don't forget to read the emoticons with the text........it's all in good fun. I was thinking about calling you "Sunray III" except I actually believe that you know what you are talking about............regardless of how irrelevant it is.............
I think you and I could have a lively discussion (with a large bottle of GOOD scotch) about the contributions of modern technology to the handloading community and it's overall relevance in the big picture. I do respect your understanding of this technology but I really do question it's relevance. Some times too much irrelevant information, is just that..........irrelevant.
I think you and I could have a lively discussion (with a large bottle of GOOD scotch) about the contributions of modern technology to the handloading community and it's overall relevance in the big picture. I do respect your understanding of this technology but I really do question it's relevance. Some times too much irrelevant information, is just that..........irrelevant.
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Don't forget to read the emoticons with the text........it's all in good fun. I was thinking about calling you "Sunray III" except I actually believe that you know what you are talking about............regardless of how irrelevant it is.............
OK, gotcha.
.It is relevant for my purpose though.
just cant get enough IMR.
Oh and I can read post that have been edited
You must get a real kick out of the crap some of us say then edit. Lol
Suther
Edit hell one posting was moved through the Star Gate in Vancouver and you can't even find the planet it was moved to????????
Milsurp forum
Moved: Lee Enfield bolt head.
Started by Buster95, 11-22-2016
