Reliability with battle rifles

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Kecmama

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Hey there,

Not a big poster. Looking to get into more serious firearms that are of the non restricted type.

The problem I see is it doesn’t matter if it’s stag, bcl, wk180c, etc, there seems to be a large string of issues with FTE FTF or mag fitting...

Is there any rifle out there that is more reliable, of good quality and not too much plastic, has good reviews, doesn’t fail, isn’t insanely over priced, and I can really bet my life on it.

Please let me know!

MK
 
Most problems are people “building” their own rifles or not using factory ammo. Like the recent “short stroking with new barrel” thread. Would it make sense if I changed out some suspension parts on my truck and then said it didn’t run right? Also, many posters here refuse to contact the seller or manufacturer first about a rifle they have a problem with. You see the the worst of the worst on here most days.
 
The biggest problem is built quality: even a really good AR15 or AR10 is expensive.
High quality M14 are super reliable and any high quality AR15 or AR10 is also very reliable.
The real problem as that shooters expect HK quality at Norinco prices!
(Would you expect Porsche quality and KIA price ?)

If they were not restricted, I'd simply buy the best Daniel Defense or HK rifle that I can afford in 5.56 or 7.62.
If ever Brownells Retro-AR10 are classified non-restricted, they might be really interesting.

In the meantime, I'm shooting a really "okay" BCL-102 and am waiting for what I hope will be a great ATRS Modern Sporter.

Alex
 
Yes I agree people are probably building them and having problems. Wish we could buy a finished product that worked out of the box without mods or tinkering.

Reading about the old guns and how things were made to last before, especially in the expansion times of old America. Didn’t have access to gun smiths so your rifle worked or you died. They were reliable, of simple design, and just didn’t stop working plus they were affordable for the common man.

Granted times are different now and we are using more complex firearms, but I just don’t understand how so many companies are releasing many types of firearms and many are of such low quality. If you want to spend on custom, you can get a great gun, but pay for it.

Back in the day it was all hand made and you got “custom” for a reasonable price. Not trying to sound like a complainer but I’m just seeing many people paying 1000+ for rifles that seem to not function. Doesn’t seem right.

MK
 
I can say for experience from owning both, the BCL-102 that I had for a few months ran flawlessly up untill about 300 rounds when the gas rings where toast. Problem being that BCL did not finish the inside surface of the bolt carrier. Other than that it was a great rifle. Also BCL was willing to ship me an entire BCG for free however I sold the rifle and upgrade to a stag 10.

The stag 10 is hands down a better rifle than the BCL-102 that I had. The quality of every part is a step up. I do miss some of the upgraded features of the BCL however that is offset by the fact that I believe the stag will last longer and perform much better.

Also have a WK-180c and have been nothing but impressed with that rifle. 200 rounds zero issues. Even prints sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards with my reloads. Light weight and easy to pack around.

I would say buy a stag 10 if your looking for a NR big bore AR. I have had zero issues with feeding or extraction with a variety of mags and ammo. Mags drop free, bolt always locks back, haven't had a single jam in 120 rounds.

I would bet my life on the Stag 10 and will while hunting in Grizz country this year. Anyways that's my 2 cents hope it helps.
 
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A Norinco M-305 will suit your needs if a little heavy (according to some...). With the current problem with bolt lugs shearing it's not a good idea to buy a new one. The up side is a gently used one will save you large over a new Stag, or BLC. It's not based on a Stoner design so forget easy inexpensive upgrades, but if you can live with 3 - 4 moa (mine is better, about 2 moa with handloads) and the other shortcomings it's a very reliable rifle. Mine was dead reliable till I put on the scope mount for load development, but that is a well known problem and so is the fix. My only beef is how fast I go through a pound of powder, and my brass gets culled much sooner.
 
Kecmama said:
Hey there,

Not a big poster. Looking to get into more serious firearms that are of the non restricted type.

The problem I see is it doesn’t matter if it’s stag, bcl, wk180c, etc, there seems to be a large string of issues with FTE FTF or mag fitting...

Is there any rifle out there that is more reliable, of good quality and not too much plastic, has good reviews, doesn’t fail, isn’t insanely over priced, and I can really bet my life on it.

Please let me know!

MK
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Type 81 lol
Seriously though, you're ####ing dead on. Nothing but dice tosses.
And no like others have said it's NOT just due to people messing with the guns causing problems...yeah no. My stock 180c was a jam o matic finicky piece of sh*t. Even after paying out of my pocket to send back a defective product.
The stock BCL I got to shoot with my buddy was ammo sensitive to the point of having FTE so bad we had to mortar the rifle to clear it every second shot.
No experience with the stag 10.
Just because some rifles made it out of the dodgey QC in semi working order, does not negate the validity of OPs statement.
OP, look into a slightly used properly gone over M305s if you want a reliable battle rifle for a good price or pick up a type 81 in 7.62x39 if you're cool with a stock, not that modular rifle that will go bang every single time no matter what. Likely until you're either too broke to afford ammo or you're dead from old age lol
 
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Travis Bickle said:
Type 81 lol
Seriously though, you're ####ing dead on. Nothing but dice tosses.
And no like others have said it's NOT just due to people messing with the guns causing problems...yeah no. My stock 180c was a jam o matic finicky piece of sh*t.
The stock BCL I got to shoot with my buddy was ammo sensitive to the point of having FTE so bad we had to mortar the rifle to clear it every second shot.
No experience with the stag 10.
Just because some rifles made it out of the dodgey QC in semi working order, does not negate the validity of OPs statement.
OP, look into a slightly used properly gone over M305s if you want a reliable battle rifle for a good price or pick up a type 81 in 7.62x39 if you're cool with a stock, not that modular rifle that will go bang every single time no matter what.
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That’s makes me think, type 81 versus vz 58. Probably both around the same price point too. Hmmm. I will have to look at the intervals and see which is of simpler design and parts. I always feel more parts means more chance of things breaking. I also like larger parts rather than smaller parts. Thanks for the idea!
 
Kecmama said:
Hey there,

Not a big poster. Looking to get into more serious firearms that are of the non restricted type.

The problem I see is it doesn’t matter if it’s stag, bcl, wk180c, etc, there seems to be a large string of issues with FTE FTF or mag fitting...

Is there any rifle out there that is more reliable, of good quality and not too much plastic, has good reviews, doesn’t fail, isn’t insanely over priced, and I can really bet my life on it.

Please let me know!

MK
Click to expand...

The two factory rifles (in this category) that I've had that I would "bet my life on" are the XCR and the Famae. Both were trouble free and bomb proof reliable.

If the price is a little too steep for you for a new one you can be patient and look around for a used one. They come up from time to time for decent prices.

Other than that I would say build a Stag 10 but I really can't comment first hand because I'm still waiting for the barrel I ordered for my build.
 
jiffx2781 said:
The two factory rifles (in this category) that I've had that I would "bet my life on" are the XCR and the Famae. Both were trouble free and bomb proof reliable.

If the price is a little too steep for you for a new one you can be patient and look around for a used one. They come up from time to time for decent prices.

Other than that I would say build a Stag 10 but I really can't comment first hand because I'm still waiting for the barrel I ordered for my build.
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I completely forgot about the xcr-m. I was looking into them years ago and there were issues so I think I wrote that rifle off. I wonder how they are now.
 
Kecmama said:
That’s makes me think, type 81 versus vz 58. Probably both around the same price point too. Hmmm. I will have to look at the intervals and see which is of simpler design and parts. I always feel more parts means more chance of things breaking. I also like larger parts rather than smaller parts. Thanks for the idea!
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The CZ858s are great rifles too. Owned two and shot them to the point of trying to break them back when they cost 700 bucks and a crate of ammo was 200 lol
I prefer the type 81 after owning and shooting both now but it's a personal preference thing and I don't like afternarket doo dads.
 
Slampert said:
I can say for experience from owning both, the BCL-102 that I had for a few months ran flawlessly up untill about 300 rounds when the gas rings where toast. Problem being that BCL did not finish the inside surface of the bolt carrier. Other than that it was a great rifle. Also BCL was willing to ship me an entire BCG for free however I sold the rifle and upgrade to a stag 10.

The stag 10 is hands down a better rifle than the BCL-102 that I had. The quality of every part is a step up. I do miss some of the upgraded features of the BCL however that is offset by the fact that I believe the stag will last longer and perform much better.

Also have a WK-180c and have been nothing but impressed with that rifle. 200 rounds zero issues. Even prints sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards with my reloads. Light weight and easy to pack around.

I would say buy a stag 10 if your looking for a NR big bore AR. I have had zero issues with feeding or extraction with a variety of mags and ammo. Mags drop free, bolt always locks back, haven't had a single jam in 120 rounds.

I would bet my life on the Stag 10 and will while hunting in Grizz country this year. Anyways that's my 2 cents hope it helps.
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My Stag 10 (IRUNGUNS) has mag issues that still need to be sorted, FTF, FTE, and light primer strikes. I'm going to get it functioning 100% with time and money, but the fact that it doesn't function well out of the box is absolutely ridiculous
 
Kecmama said:
Yes I agree people are probably building them and having problems. Wish we could buy a finished product that worked out of the box without mods or tinkering.

Reading about the old guns and how things were made to last before, especially in the expansion times of old America. Didn’t have access to gun smiths so your rifle worked or you died. They were reliable, of simple design, and just didn’t stop working plus they were affordable for the common man.

Granted times are different now and we are using more complex firearms, but I just don’t understand how so many companies are releasing many types of firearms and many are of such low quality. If you want to spend on custom, you can get a great gun, but pay for it.

Back in the day it was all hand made and you got “custom” for a reasonable price. Not trying to sound like a complainer but I’m just seeing many people paying 1000+ for rifles that seem to not function. Doesn’t seem right.

MK
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I'm going to disagree with you on much of this post.

Old guns were made to last when people were willing to pay the price for higher quality guns. Do you know what killed the venerable 1899 Savage? It wasn't quality related, or even lack of demand, per se. But production costs, and consumers unwilling to pay the high price that it costs to make. When the Henry rifle burst upon the scene, if was a highly desired gun, but it sure wasn't "cheap". $50 doesn't sound like a lot, but it was 2 or 3 times costlier than a quality muzzle loader, and about 3 months salary for the average man at the time.

Guns aren't much more complicated, if at all today. We've had automatic guns for about 110 years already. Semi-autos are not that complicated. We have been somewhat spoiled by CNC machining, and cheap overseas labour.

We've mostly accepted that we don't rely on one or 2 guns to do everything with including hunting for small game, big game, predator attacks, and defense of the homestead. We've traded that craftsmanship for low costs, and the ability to fill up multiple gun racks for fun and specialization.

We are actually living in a pretty good time to be a gun nut. Though it is lamentable that some companies have let reputations slip, we should recognize our own role in that. If you are willing to spend a months salary on a gun (average), rest assured that you will truly have a high quality gun. Not that you need to spend that much, but when you put it in historical context, you can get a lot more than you used to be able to for the relative money spent.
 
Its a race to the bottom, All manufacturers are guilty of it. But some people expect to much from a 2K Stag-10. A high Quality AR10 is around 3K to build. So like it or not Stag has to use more generic parts where they can to hit that price point.

Its still a fine rifle, I was actually surprised buy the quality of my stripped set. and It blew all 3 of the 102s I build and fixed out of the water.
 
Travis Bickle said:
The CZ858s are great rifles too. Owned two and shot them to the point of trying to break them back when they cost 700 bucks and a crate of ammo was 200 lol
I prefer the type 81 after owning and shooting both now but it's a personal preference thing and I don't like afternarket doo dads.
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So I am assuming you didn’t get a bent type 81? Can’t believe people are having that type of issue. Shooting 2 feet to the left at a 100m because it’s bent a few millimeters. Crazy. But I mean Norinco isn’t known for high quality guys either.
 
DILLIGAF said:
Its a race to the bottom, All manufacturers are guilty of it. But some people expect to much from a 2K Stag-10. A high Quality AR10 is around 3K to build. So like it or not Stag has to use more generic parts where they can to hit that price point.

Its still a fine rifle, I was actually surprised buy the quality of my stripped set. and It blew all 3 of the 102s I build and fixed out of the water.
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Lot's of guys have had good success with the Stag 10, WK180, BCL 102, etc, but lots haven't. The QC issues seem excessive. Makes my VZ 58 seem awesome- never a single issue with that rifle
 
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