Reload with retention?

harbl_the_cat

harbl_the_cat

BANNED
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
BANNED
Rating - 100%
53   0   0
What are the trains of thought in favour of/opposed to "Fresh mag loaded before pocketing partial mag" versus "Pocketing partial mag before loading fresh mag?"

Personally, I think pocketing the spent mag concurrent to grabbing your fresh mag means, then loading the fresh mag into the mag well means less time with your support hand going up and down between your pocket and strong hand (as well as being a circular motion with your hand, from magwell, to pocket, to mag pouch, to mag well) - theoretically cutting down your overall town.

However, this increases the time it takes between when you have a fresh mag and from a tactical perspective puts you at a disadvantage (should you need to engage multiple targets).

Any thoughts?
 
If this is in reference to IDPA, you do not have to have the partially empty mag stored before you move.
With the above in mind, it is theoretically faster to grab a fresh mag, dump old, seat new, and then store the old (Tac-Load) in some instances. Just needs a bit of practice to master, and probably not all that easy to do with small hands, as you are handing two mags in one hand.
 
Last edited:
That's a good point, I didn't give much thought to the fact that you could grab a mag on the move. However, if you're already behind cover and performing a tactical reload, is it logical to assume it's faster to initiate the reload by dumping the old mag, and as you pocket it, grab a fresh mag?
 
I haven't had to the chance to try this out,...but wouldn't it make sense to shoot strong hand on a few targets with the partially filled mag in one hand? Can you do that?
 
harbl_the_cat said:
That's a good point, I didn't give much thought to the fact that you could grab a mag on the move. However, if you're already behind cover and performing a tactical reload, is it logical to assume it's faster to initiate the reload by dumping the old mag, and as you pocket it, grab a fresh mag?
Click to expand...
Grab new mag; dump old; insert new; pocket or otherwise retain old. Page 41 of the rule book. Your gun is therefore low on ammo for the minimum timeframe, but whatever your theories on speed you have to do it like the book if the COF calls for a tac reload.
 
If it isn't specified and you are competent in doing so, tac-reload it and shoot one handed, using cover, and stowing the ammo. Just remember that dropping a partial mag = bad :)
 
maurice said:
I haven't had to the chance to try this out,...but wouldn't it make sense to shoot strong hand on a few targets with the partially filled mag in one hand? Can you do that?
Click to expand...

Jarlath said:
If it isn't specified and you are competent in doing so, tac-reload it and shoot one handed, using cover, and stowing the ammo. Just remember that dropping a partial mag = bad :)
Click to expand...

IDPA rules Page 44: All reloads must be executed from cover (if cover is available) and must be completed before leaving cover.
Stowing the magazine is part of the reload and therefore must be performed behind cover as well.

My interpretation of this is that Procedural penalties apply for initiating a reload while not in cover or for not stowing the mag before leaving cover.
 
Last edited:
raks said:
IDPA rules Page 44: All reloads must be executed from cover (if cover is available) and must be completed before leaving cover.
Stowing the magazine is part of the reload and therefore must be performed behind cover as well.

My interpretation of this is that Procedural penalties apply for initiating a reload while not in cover or for not stowing the mag before leaving cover.
Click to expand...

Stowing the magazine is not part of the reload. The reload is complete when a mag is in the gun and a round is in the chamber.
 
!) The fastest is RWR. Drop mag into hand, stow, draw fresh mag, insert, hand on gun - least amount of movement and reload starts and ends at the gun.

2) All reloads start with the first movement to initiate the reload, drawing a mag from a carrier, dropping the mag, whatever but this must happen behind cover.(Page 9)

3) Failure to stow a mag prior to firing first shot is a procedural.(Page 41)

John
 
Last edited:
^ john beat me to the punch but anyhow...

Winchester3030 said:
Stowing the magazine is not part of the reload. The reload is complete when a mag is in the gun and a round is in the chamber.
Click to expand...

Not true. Stowing the mag is clearly detailed as a part of the reload in the appendix.

Approved reloads have multiple steps. The reload cannot be complete if the steps are not finished. From the IDPA rules the step are - p41:

"Tactical Reload (Tac-Load) is recharging the gun during a lull
in the action by:
A. Drawing a spare magazine prior to the ejection of the partial
magazine from the gun.
B. Dropping the partial magazine from the gun.
C. Inserting the spare magazine into the gun.
D. Stowing the partial magazine properly (See “proper
magazine retention” in the glossary)."

Similarly for a Reload With Retention - p44:

Reload with Retention (RWR) is recharging the gun during a
lull in the action by:
A. Dropping the partial magazine from the gun.
B. Stowing the partial magazine properly (See “proper
magazine retention” in the glossary).
C. Drawing a spare magazine.
D. Inserting the spare magazine into the gun.

These approved reloads BEGIN on step A and END on step D.

IF you leave cover before completing A through D then the reload has not been completed behind cover and a procedural penalty should be issued.

If you start step A then you are initiating a reload. If this is done in the open when cover is available then it should be cause for a procedural.
 
Last edited:
raks:


Yes all reloads require the 'proper magazine retention' and indicated by the steps shown on pg. 41 & 42 for 'Tactical Reload' and 'Reload with Retention'- and this is defined in the glossary. These are detailed steps to show the sequence.

However....


Page 9 clearly states '...All reloads begin with the shooter's first action to initiate the reload (ejection of the magazine, drawing a spare magazine, etc.) and end when the weapon is fully charged and ready to fire...'

Appendix TWO goes on to indicate '...Failure to properly stow a partial magazine or live ammunition after a Tactical Reload or RWR prior to firing the first shot after the reload, will incur a procedural penalty.' pg. 41

Per Appendix Eleven (definitions)

'Reload: A method of recharging the gun. There are three (3) types of reloads allowed in IDPA. See "Reload, Slide Lock", "Reload, Tactical (Tac-Load)" and "Reload with Retention" for further details. A shooter is deemed loaded and may move from a position of cover ONLY when the fresh magazine is FULLY-SEATED and the slide is closed or revolver cylinder is closed.'

'Cover: '...All reloads must be executed from cover (if cover is available) and must be completed before leaving cover. A shooter is deemed loaded and may move from a position of cover ONLY when the fresh magazine is FULLY SEATED and the slide is fully forward or the revolver cylinder is closed....'


So...per the rule book, if you are loaded you may move from cover. Your magazine must be properly stowed per definition of 'proper magazine retention' prior to first shot after the reload.
 
Right On

Right on Beltfed.:)

Hence the tactic used on the Classifier Stage 3 String 2 of stowing the mag while moving from the barricade to the barrel.
Good move if you use a Tac Reload.:rockOn:

Never an issue for me 'cause I prefer the RWR:cool::cool:

John
 
Reloads

mmattockx said:
I have a dumb rookie question at this point. Exactly WHY is it necessary to retain the mag after a reload, instead of dumping it and moving on?

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

You can dump the mag if you do a Slide lock reload but the mag must be retained during a Tac Reload or RWR.

Why? 'Cause them are the rules!:p

John
 
I thought the idea was that you can't leave ammo behind, such that only emergency reload with slide locked back means that you have empty mag you can drop. In all other cases you want to retain mag even if it has 1 round left in it.
 
owlowl said:
I thought the idea was that you can't leave ammo behind, such that only emergency reload with slide locked back means that you have empty mag you can drop. In all other cases you want to retain mag even if it has 1 round left in it.
Click to expand...

You are required to retain an empty magazine if there is a round left chambered in the gun.
 
Winchester3030 said:
You are required to retain an empty magazine if there is a round left chambered in the gun.
Click to expand...

the reason behind that rule is simply that in a firefight a participant cannot be relied upon to accuratly count his rounds, he is doing a reload with slide forward so he cannot ASSUME that the mag is empty....

theonly time you can assume a gun is empty is if the slide locks back.... also look at the exemptions if the gun "malfunctions" as it applies to reloads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom