Reloading 38 for Cowboy Action

ironring58

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Picking up a couple of Vaquero's in 357/38 with eye towards trying out Cowboy Action. Wondering what bullet/loading people are using for this sport? Have 8 lbs to Titegroup. Looking for bullets. Hear people are using some that are pretty light.

Suggestions?
 
158 or 130 gr RNFP are both excellent bullets for cowboy'n...slightly less recoil with the 130's, some shooters use this as an advantage if you want to be a speed demon type ( nothing wrong with that in a timed sport)

I will use most any fast pistol powder in a pinch but Titegroup is my "go too" if I have a choice. 3.2 gr with either bullet. It is less "position sensitive" and burns cleaner than most others.
 
I am a total, utter greenhorn. I just started reloading this year so my advice is one grain above uselessness. I bought a couple of cans of a powder called Trail Boss as was recommended to me in another thread. I shoot the exact same pistols as you btw ☺. I load 158 grain bullet because...that's what's in stock at the local gun smith.

Weather permitting I am going to the range in the next few weeks, I'll report back my first impressions.
 
I forgot to add - before you buy your Vaquero pistols I'll throw in my two bits. In my ignorant opinion they are the finest single action revolvers, an absolute pleasure to shoot and the 5.5 inch barrel gives it a just right feel of balance in the hand. I tried the 4.5 inch barrel at a shoot, and then the 5.5 and it was love at first bang. Again, I am painfully new well, you know. Internet and opinions and all that.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I will go with DRG 130 grain RNFP. Cheap local source. I heard that people were going as low as 90 grain, but not as many sources.

Vaquero's are both 4 5/8 barrels. Heard that short barrels were easier to draw. Hope I don't regret the purchase.
 
The accuracy demands for cowboy action are not high. So really we just need something that goes BANG! reliably. And pretty much anything works.

What is more important with fixed sight guns is that you pick a bullet weight you KNOW you can get. And once you pick your bullet weight that you push it to a consistent velocity using whatever powder works. This is important because you are quite likely going to have to file down the front sight blade to match the gun's POA to the POI of the gun and ammo you're using. And with this style of sight adjustment it's not easy to back up :d So a continuous and reliable supply of at least the same WEIGHT of bullets is critical.

The ammo which will print on the targets closer to the aiming point of the stock front blade are going to be the heavier bullets driven slowly by light charges. And even those are likely going to hit a bit low. So something like 158's of some sort pushed at modest velocity is likely going to be the round that works best before any sight blade trimming is done. If you go with a lighter bullet you'll need to shave the front blade down more. And it will limit you to using that same lighter bullet from that point on. At least it does if you want to avoid using any "Kentucky elevation" in your sight picture.

So it's important to shoot a few different loadings and make some decisions on what you can find readily and reliably and then make some up to try it to find the power level you like to shoot. Some go with crazy light loads that risk not making it to the target while others, I'm one such, prefer stronger loads so we feel like we're actually shooting a gun. Many others are somewhere in between. There is a speed limit in the rules to protect the targets so if you opt for the stronger loads don't go above the muzzle velocities from pistol or rifle given in the rules. And with lighter bullets this becomes a very real risk.

Locally I've got Bullet Barn just about in my own backyard. So the obvious choice is using their product. A popular bullet from them because it feeds well in the rifles is their 130gn LRNFP. I'd say all but a couple of the local folks shooting the .38/.357 guns are using these for this reason. A side bonus is that with the amount of ammo used in matches and practices it also saves $12 or so per thousand which can go towards powder or primers.

Being more specific I load .38Spl's with this bullet and 3.8gns of Tightgroup for my pistols and the same bullet in .357Mag casings for my Rossi 92 rifle with 4.0gns of Tightgroup. The added .2gns being to make up for the extra casing volume so the rounds will both shoot and feel roughly the same. They are strong enough to feel like a proper .38Spl load but held back enough that I'm not worried about a chrono test for the speed limit.

All in all the bullet choice is going to be driven by what your rifle prefers. The pistols can toss any shape bullet. But the rifle is likely going to be a lot more fussy about what it eats. So in the end you need to find the bullet for the rifle and then buy lots to share with the pistols.

If you end up using your Ruger pistols for some classic bullseye shooting as a side interest then that's a whole other issue. At that point you'll want to play around with some different bullets to find something that still shoots to the same POA of your trimmed and dressed down sights but which works with the barrel and twist rate. Really though the needs for bullseye shooting and cowboy action are quite different. For bullseye shooting with a single action you'd be much better off with a Blackhawk and the adjustable sights that come with that gun so you can use any bullet and set up the sights for a mid bull aim combat style sight picture or the classic 6 o'clock "lollipop" sight picture.
 
I load all of the wife's and my CAS ammo with 4.0 grains Unique and 158 grain RNFP bullets. As for primers, I had a problem with misfires in Winchester primers so I went to Remington, problem sorted. OAL for .38 spl is 1.450". 158 grain RNFP feeds consistently in all 10 of my CAS firearms. Also a Lee Taper Crimp die is very worth while, I prefer to seat and crimp in 2 separate operations. The standard that you are looking for is the one that cycles flawlessly through your pistol caliber carbine.
 
I load all of the wife's and my CAS ammo with 4.0 grains Unique and 158 grain RNFP bullets. As for primers, I had a problem with misfires in Winchester primers so I went to Remington, problem sorted. OAL for .38 spl is 1.450". 158 grain RNFP feeds consistently in all 10 of my CAS firearms. Also a Lee Taper Crimp die is very worth while, I prefer to seat and crimp in 2 separate operations. The standard that you are looking for is the one that cycles flawlessly through your pistol caliber carbine.

So you are using 38 cases in your carbine as well. In an earlier post the poster seemed to indicate he was using 357's in his. I am looking at a Rossi M92 38/357. I was hoping to use 38's in it as well. This should be OK???

BTW is there a good source for 38 brass?
 
At first and with deliberate lever cycling the .38's will work. But as soon as you start cycling with speed and snap the short .38's will result in jams and misfeeds where the new round coming up sticks up out of the action. That's a sure fire sign that you need to switch to .357 casings. The 1892 action is hellishly sensitive to cartridge length when cycled quickly.

The Rossi is my main match rifle as well and I had to switch to .357 casings in my first year after many jams from using the shorter .38's.

I've got another hint for you as well. Even with the .357 casings I found that roll crimping tended to leave a little bulge on some or just a blunter shoulder. A year ago I tried taper crimping my rifle rounds using a 9mm Lee factory taper crimp die. I set it so there's an obvious taper mark that extends from the lip down the sides by around .08 to .09 inch. This has made a very noticeable improvement in letting the rounds slip into the chamber a lot more smoothly.

At one point I also played with a test batch of .38Spl cases and loaded the cast bullets so that the crimp occurred at the forward edge of the lube groove. This gave me rounds that had an OAL very close to the .357 loads. These also fed quite well but tended to be a little more fragile in handling due to the reduced neck engagement and neck tension. And likely due to the lower neck tension the reports from them sounded like there was a lot of variation in muzzle velocity. So I never did any more after the first batch of 100. They did shoot fine for the usual big targets but I would have been reluctant to use them on the smaller bonus targets with any trust.

If you don't get any sources in Ontario then you could try Rusty Wood Trading. Fair warning though. Supplies of brass are spotty and varied. But he takes names for a waiting list and doles out the brass according to that list. I recently got 500 more .357 cases which took something like 6 months to get. And I doubt that other suppliers are any better. So it would likely be very lucky if you found anyone that can ship immediately.... Or you may just luck out and ask for it an hour after the shipment arrives at the place and they've got more than what they need to fill the backorders. It's all a crap shoot of this sort at this point in time.
 
So you are using 38 cases in your carbine as well. In an earlier post the poster seemed to indicate he was using 357's in his. I am looking at a Rossi M92 38/357. I was hoping to use 38's in it as well. This should be OK???

BTW is there a good source for 38 brass?

I'm using .38 Spl brass in my Uberti 73 (tuned by Rusty Woods), and in the last couple of months since Rusty Woods tuned the wife's Browning B92(now her main match rifle), in my wife's backup rifle the Rossi M92, for matches we still use .357 and for slow fire practice she uses .38 Spl brass. Hope this clarifies things. As I said 10 CAS firearms in .38/.357. If you are serious about shooting and travel a lot, always have a backup and make sure the ammo works flawlessly in all of them.
 
Check your messages. I sent you one.


So you are using 38 cases in your carbine as well. In an earlier post the poster seemed to indicate he was using 357's in his. I am looking at a Rossi M92 38/357. I was hoping to use 38's in it as well. This should be OK???

BTW is there a good source for 38 brass?
 
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