Reloading 45-70 black powder

Brickie

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Hello all. I just bought a new Uberti 1885 in 45-70 (yes...it is dead ###y :adult:) and will be using black powder in it. I bought a mould and scrounged some scrap lead to cast my own bullets. I have heard about water quenching the bullets right out of the mould to help harden them. I also heard that the alloy will continue to harden for a period after casting. My question is should I wait a couple of weeks after casting the bullets before I make my cartridges?
 
I don't wait to load on purpose. Black powder loads don't require extra hardness as they are usually not high velocity. Just be sure to have an appropriate black powder bullet lube and clean your rifle and cases religiously after shooting. My $0.02 anyway.
 
Melt yourself some wheel weights, they are very hard and work very well, just flux the molten lead with wax to clean it up, pour into ingots
 
Pickup and read a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. All your questions are more are answered in it as well as a good deal of load data.
 
Pickup and read a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. All your questions are more are answered in it as well as a good deal of load data.

X2 on the Lyman manual plus the Ken Waters Complete Pet Loads manual. Also go to the BPCR.net site as there is downloadable information on the site in regards to reloading BP. The BPCR site itself has somewhat been abandoned by its owner recently and is relatively inactive but still contains good info. In addition there is valuable information on Cast Boolits form.

Welcome to the world of the holy smoke....
 
I find wheel weights to measure about 15 on the Brinnell hardness scale. Not really that hard but much harder than pure lead.

The Lyman manual is great. There are also lots of sites to check out as well.

Good lube on the bullets is definitely a must and many long range BPCR shooters also smear lube on their bullets just before chambering them. Presently I am using the wax rings used for sealing toilets. It seems to work very well for softening the residue left in the bore from the previous shot fired. The old rings, if you can find them are beeswax mixed with some sort of softener so that they don't harden up when they get cold. The new rings which are around $5 each coat hundreds of bullets and I don't even know if they still contain any beeswax but they still do the job well.

Black powder is traditionally measured by volume rather than weighing each load. I weigh out each load and settled for a load that slightly compresses the black powder. Black powder likes to be compressed slightly. It abhors an air space.
 
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I find wheel weights to measure about 15 on the Brinnell hardness scale. Not really that hard but much harder than pure lead.

The Lyman manual is great. There are also lots of sites to check out as well.

Good lube on the bullets is definitely a must and many long range BPCR shooters also smear lube on their bullets just before chambering them. Presently I am using the wax rings used for sealing toilets. It seems to work very well for softening the residue left in the bore from the previous shot fired. The old rings, if you can find them are beeswax mixed with some sort of softener so that they don't harden up when they get cold. The new rings which are around $5 each coat hundreds of bullets and I don't even know if they still contain any beeswax but they still do the job well.

Black powder is traditionally measured by volume rather than weighing each load. I weigh out each load and settled for a load that slightly compresses the black powder. Black powder likes to be compressed slightly. It abhors an air space.

I have heard about the beeswax rings for toilets, but forgot about them. Thanks for the reminder. I spent an hour online yesterday looking for a supplier of beeswax that was close. Apparently the Home Depot will be my source.

I just ordered the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook on Amazon. Thanks for your replies.

Anyone have some 45-70 brass to sell?
 
The weight versus volume debate has raged for a century.

Scientifically, black powder should be measured by weight. Volume is a terribly inaccurate measurement for determining the amount of a reactant in a chemical reaction (such as combustion) unless it's a liquid. However black powder was traditionally measured by volume because it was a lot faster and easier. Substitutes are designed to be measured by equivalent volume so unless you can find the density difference between it and black powder you kind of have to use volume. For true black powder I always measure by weight now and find it got rid of most of my flyers. There was one article I read online where the author found as many different volumetric measures as he could and found the average charge they weighed using different granulation's of different brands of black powder and substitutes. The results were all over the place even for the true black powders depending on brand and type (FFg versus FFFg). Velocities (in a muzzle loader) were likewise all over the map. Volumes that contained more powder (by weight) shot higher velocities. Exactly as the scientific method would predict.

A big reason black powder can be measured by volume is because it is so forgiving because it has such low chemical potential energy. If you loaded Varget and were off by 5% (say 2.5gr in a 50gr charge), you could have wildly different velocities. This is because the chemical potential energy is so high so those 2.5gr contain a good deal more energy. With black powder the energy potential is so much lower you can be off by quite a bit and only have slight velocity variations. It's the same with ultra low density powders like Trail Boss. I always measure Trail Boss with Lee scoops and can still shoot decent groups. If you want true precision though, measuring black powder by weight is far more accurate.

And now I totally expect to get flamed by people who have "always done it by volume" who will tell me I am utterly wrong.

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I recently switched to smokeless lube and 3Fg instead of SPG black powder lube and 2Fg. Found my rifle (an H&R Buffalo Classic) shoots better groups now. I read about it on the Cast Boolits forums. Using this method you need to clean the bore between each shot but other than that there is nothing different. There is no buildup of tar/junk and no leading. The buildup of difficult-to-clean tar like stuff from using smokeless lube with black powder is a result of firing many rounds. Black powder lube keeps the fouling soft after multiple shots so it remains easy to clean. I have fired up to 5 shots in a row without cleaning using this method just to test and the fouling remained easy to clean. The accuracy went to hell after the second shot though.

With 2Fg I was hard pressed to get much more than 60-62gr of powder in a 45-70 case. I don't have a powder compression die so if I try to compress the powder with the bullet it bulges and sometimes wont chamber. With 3Fg I can much more easily fit 70gr in a case and have even gotten as much as 75gr with smaller 340gr bullets. I haven't chronied those ones but they kick substantially less than level 2 lever loads with smokeless powder. Brass and primers are identical to those fired with 60gr of 2Fg (not that you can trust any of these pressure signs at black powder pressures).

For over powder wads and cushion wads (for use with reduced charges since you need to fill the case to compress the powder) I order from Track of the Wolf in the US. That's just for round-ball loads though. For normal loads with bullets I only use over powder wads.

Anyone have some 45-70 brass to sell?
Budget Shooter Supply has Starline brass in stock.
http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=1401&CategoryID=56
http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=194&CategoryID=56

The Bullet Barn also has Starline brass listed as in stock but at higher prices. $40/50 and $75/100. Also not a site sponsor so posting links is frowned upon.

Starline is what I use for a lot of my loads both black powder and smokeless. Also use a lot of it for 44 magnum.
 
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You don't need to worry about your bullets being extra hard for 45-70 black powder loads, the original bullets were a 20:1 lead to tin alloy and were soft so that they would obturate from the pressure and force of the black powder charge. I load black powder cartridges for my Trapdoor Springfield just as they were originally, 70 grains of 2F black powder by weight under a 500 grain round nose 45 bullet cast with the 20:1 alloy. To get 70 grains in a 45-70 casing I use a drop tube then a powder compression die to compact the powder.
 
I don't own one but I believe they support the outside of the case so it doesn't bulge while compressing. I've tried using an RCBS case neck expanding die for the same purpose in the past and got bulged cases that wouldn't chamber.
 
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