Reloading 45-70 Govt

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MKFrancis

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Hey everyone,

Just picked up a Lee's classic hand loader in 45-70 govt. (I'm not looking at buying a press etc. This is what I can afford right now and the volume ill be reloading doesn't justify it)

I have some knowledge of how to actually do the physical reloading however what I'm lacking in is the actual specifics of what powder, bullets and primers I need. Going to be getting a reloading book before I start but would appreciate any "quick start" advise. Wanting to load a 405G hunting round.

Looking at bullets at bullet barn, any idea what the difference between 45-70 RNFP SLG BB and 45-70 RNFP TLG BB is? Am I even in the right ball park? Im shooting a Marlin 1895GLB. I assume all this will be in the reloading book but hey I'm eager to order some and wanted to ask you folks.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt.
 
Before shooting cast you should slug your bore. My guide gun was .4585. A .458 bullet would most likely have leaded badly. Lee's newer load data with the classic is confusing if you don't have a scale. It used to be "add a scoop of any of these powders for this bullet weight and here's your approximate velocity" Now its in depth with starting and max loads. If you're going to use the dipper, you have to pick a load whose charge weight equals the volume of your dipper. Good powders are IMR and H4198, IMR 3031, RL7 etc. There's a number of others. Adding a scale will be very helpful. Other than that just follow the instructions to a tee.
 
Well, if u look in their legend, SLG is a single lube groove the the TLG is a triple lube groove. Bullet profiles are the same. You will have to determine which works best for your application. Finding brass and powder(moreso) may be a bit of a challenge. Remember you are looking for 45-70Govt. Do not use Hornady Leverevolution brass expecting it to be the same as Govt. It is fact shorter than Govt as Hornady uses a proprietary bullet in the Leverevolution ammunition with the crimping groove in a slightly different location. If unsure, measure as the only marking on the brass is 'Hornady' and can be easily mistaken as Govt. Check to make sure your Marlin will feed 405's reliably as some folks have had problems.
dB
 
I've been reloading for only a few years.
Actually had one of those hand loaders in 45-70. Some will poo-poo them just 'cause they're Lee, others will say "you don't load ammo with a hammer". :) Sold it when I picked up other 45-70's and the need for a good neck crimp.

A good book (or two) is most definitely the best place to start.
For powders, I use Trail Boss and H-4198. There's tons of choices, actually.
Bullets.....Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Bullet Barn cast
Large rifle primers.

As for the bullets you mentioned, about the only difference my limited experience can tell is the number of lube grooves. What that means......:confused: .
I got the 390gr GC ones to avoid barrel leading. I've heard it doesn't matter at 45-70 speeds......personal choice.

(E) :cool:
 
I would definitely get the gas checked bullets. I haven't used the 390gr Bullet Barn bullets, but have shot many boxes of the 405gr gas checked bullets they used to sell. Those were .459" and worked well in all of the Marlins I used to own. They worked well at speeds from 1150fp right up to 1750fps.

I only shot them at targets no game so don't know how well they perform there.

There are lots of powders that work well in the .45-70. Reloder 7 is excellent if you can find any. H-4198 is also good, as is IMR-3031.

Chris.
 
supernova said:
Before shooting cast you should slug your bore. My guide gun was .4585. A .458 bullet would most likely have leaded badly. Lee's newer load data with the classic is confusing if you don't have a scale. It used to be "add a scoop of any of these powders for this bullet weight and here's your approximate velocity" Now its in depth with starting and max loads. If you're going to use the dipper, you have to pick a load whose charge weight equals the volume of your dipper. Good powders are IMR and H4198, IMR 3031, RL7 etc. There's a number of others. Adding a scale will be very helpful. Other than that just follow the instructions to a tee.
Click to expand...

What exactly does "slug your bore" mean? Thanks for the advice about the dipper and the powders, anything helps! I will also probably buy a digital scale when I have the extra cash.

daBear said:
Well, if u look in their legend, SLG is a single lube groove the the TLG is a triple lube groove. Bullet profiles are the same. You will have to determine which works best for your application. Finding brass and powder(moreso) may be a bit of a challenge. Remember you are looking for 45-70Govt. Do not use Hornady Leverevolution brass expecting it to be the same as Govt. It is fact shorter than Govt as Hornady uses a proprietary bullet in the Leverevolution ammunition with the crimping groove in a slightly different location. If unsure, measure as the only marking on the brass is 'Hornady' and can be easily mistaken as Govt. Check to make sure your Marlin will feed 405's reliably as some folks have had problems.
dB
Click to expand...

Good stuff, I thought the leverevolution rounds looked shorter when I seen them online. Thanks!!

(((Echo))) said:
I've been reloading for only a few years.
Actually had one of those hand loaders in 45-70. Some will poo-poo them just 'cause they're Lee, others will say "you don't load ammo with a hammer". :) Sold it when I picked up other 45-70's and the need for a good neck crimp.

A good book (or two) is most definitely the best place to start.
For powders, I use Trail Boss and H-4198. There's tons of choices, actually.
Bullets.....Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Bullet Barn cast
Large rifle primers.

As for the bullets you mentioned, about the only difference my limited experience can tell is the number of lube grooves. What that means......:confused: .
I got the 390gr GC ones to avoid barrel leading. I've heard it doesn't matter at 45-70 speeds......personal choice.

(E) :cool:
Click to expand...

Haha! I have heard that already today (not loading with a hammer)

Defiantly going to get a book, all they have here is a Nosler one right now but I'm going to do some digging and see what else I can find.

The gas checked bullet is just the copper on the bottom correct? I would love a 405G somewhere but 390G is looking what I might try unless I can find competitive prices to BB somewhere else.

Thanks for the advice, best reply yet.

gunlaker said:
I would definitely get the gas checked bullets. I haven't used the 390gr Bullet Barn bullets, but have shot many boxes of the 405gr gas checked bullets they used to sell. Those were .459" and worked well in all of the Marlins I used to own. They worked well at speeds from 1150fp right up to 1750fps.

I only shot them at targets no game so don't know how well they perform there.

There are lots of powders that work well in the .45-70. Reloder 7 is excellent if you can find any. H-4198 is also good, as is IMR-3031.

Chris.
Click to expand...

Copy that! Making a list of all these powders so I can keep my eye out!

Thanks for the reply everyone!
 
One more random question came to my mind, can't I reload the nickel brass that the Winchester silver tip ammo comes in?
 
Another thing I thought of.
If you want to reload using cast bullets, you're going to have to bell the case mouth a bit or you're going to have issues seating bullets. The Lee loader will not do this function. You'll have to find/rig another tool.

(E) :cool:

PS
Loading for a lever action, you're going to have to neck crimp. It can be done with the Lee Loader, but it's a trial and error kind of thing.
Yes, you can reload the nickel plated brass.
 
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You have been given some confusing information, including some that is certainly not my view.
Forget about trying to slug your barrel, just shoot the Bullet Barn flat base (no gas check) they sell in 405 grain weight, for a 45-70.
I have never had a Marlin barrel in either 45-70 or 44 magnum that collected any lead in them from shooting standard size cast bullets, with or without a gas check.
Cast bullets do require a bit of a flare, to allow the bullet to go in without shaving lead.
 
H4831 said:
You have been given some confusing information, including some that is certainly not my view.
Forget about trying to slug your barrel, just shoot the Bullet Barn flat base (no gas check) they sell in 405 grain weight, for a 45-70.
I have never had a Marlin barrel in either 45-70 or 44 magnum that collected any lead in them from shooting standard size cast bullets, with or without a gas check.
Cast bullets do require a bit of a flare, to allow the bullet to go in without shaving lead.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks! Good to know. I have some friends that have been hunting for years with 45-70 cast bullets and this is the first I have heard of a barrel getting leaded up. I read the bullet barn hardens their bullets to 25, whatever that means. Does that play a factor?

Thanks again.
 
(((Echo))) said:
Another thing I thought of.
If you want to reload using cast bullets, you're going to have to bell the case mouth a bit or you're going to have issues seating bullets. The Lee loader will not do this function. You'll have to find/rig another tool.

(E) :cool:

PS
Loading for a lever action, you're going to have to neck crimp. It can be done with the Lee Loader, but it's a trial and error kind of thing.
Yes, you can reload the nickel plated brass.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I read ahead and found a guy on youtube that used a socket for this purpose. I am also looking around for some sort of flaring tool.

Cheers and thanks again!!! All good stuff from everyone!
 
MKFrancis said:
Ok, thanks! Good to know. I have some friends that have been hunting for years with 45-70 cast bullets and this is the first I have heard of a barrel getting leaded up. I read the bullet barn hardens their bullets to 25, whatever that means. Does that play a factor?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Hard lead bullets will lead the bore if they are undersized. The Bullet Barn bullets seem to fit the Marlin barrels well though. You can also lead the bore if you drive them too fast.

I've shot a lot of the Bullet Barn 450gr and 535gr postell bullets without gas checks, but never ran them past 1400 fps or so. The 405gr gas checked ones certainly had no problems at 1750fps which is as heavy a load as I want to run through a Marlin.

Chris.
 
gunlaker said:
Hard lead bullets will lead the bore if they are undersized. The Bullet Barn bullets seem to fit the Marlin barrels well though. You can also lead the bore if you drive them too fast.

I've shot a lot of the Bullet Barn 450gr and 535gr postell bullets without gas checks, but never ran them past 1400 fps or so. The 405gr gas checked ones certainly had no problems at 1750fps which is as heavy a load as I want to run through a Marlin.

Chris.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to decide between the 390G GC bullets or the 405G regular non-GC. Thanks for the advice!
 
(((Echo))) said:
Another thing I thought of.
If you want to reload using cast bullets, you're going to have to bell the case mouth a bit or you're going to have issues seating bullets. The Lee loader will not do this function. You'll have to find/rig another tool.

(E) :cool:

PS
Loading for a lever action, you're going to have to neck crimp. It can be done with the Lee Loader, but it's a trial and error kind of thing.
Yes, you can reload the nickel plated brass.
Click to expand...


For not much more money (about $60) you can buy the LEE hand press which will accept the same generic dies that mainstream large table mounted presses take.
I have loaded 375 H+H and 416 Remington Magnum ammo with one of these presses.
 
MKFrancis said:
Ok, thanks! Good to know. I have some friends that have been hunting for years with 45-70 cast bullets and this is the first I have heard of a barrel getting leaded up. I read the bullet barn hardens their bullets to 25, whatever that means. Does that play a factor?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

That refers to the Brinell Hardness which is the accepted hardness standard for lead/lead alloy bullets.
The Bullet Barn bullets work well in my guns.
A bullet with a BH of 25 is a hard bullet indeed and behaves much like a solid in game.

My last bull moose was shot with my own 430 grain hardcast lead bullet (BH:25) from a Guide Gun.
This sucker was doing about 1900 fps when it left the muzzle of my gun.
Never completed another single step before buckling to the ground.
No leading whatsoever but I used copper gas checks for that heavy load.

I've since tamed the (powder: H4198) load to 1750 fps and dropped the gas checks.
Easier on the shoulder, more accurate, and no leading whatsoever.
 
Cowboy Shootist said:
I use Bullet Barn's 405 SLG RNFP in my Marlin 1895 GLB and my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps. I use both Trail Boss and IMR 4198 powder. I use the Lee single stage to deprime, prime and crimp. I use the Lee dipper for the powder.
Click to expand...

Good to hear!! Really excited to get started. What data are you using for your loads?
 
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